Paws for Thought: The Difference Between Service, Therapy, and Emotional Support Animals

Geralyn Kelly is back and this time, we’re talking about working dogs - from the friendly therapy pups that bring joy to nursing home residents, to the highly trained service animals that transform the lives of their owners. Geralyn discusses the intricate differences between these specialized canines and the common misconceptions that often surround them.

As we explore the rigorous training and certification processes required for true service and therapy dogs, you'll be amazed by the dedication and skill these remarkable animals possess. We also shed light on the growing problem of 'fake' service dogs and the heartbreaking consequences this abuse of the system has led to for those who genuinely rely on these working companions. This understanding will help us all appreciate the importance of respecting the roles of these dogs.

You’ll learn to spot the difference between a working dog and a pet masquerading as one. By understanding the rights and responsibilities of these canine heroes, you'll be better equipped to respect their important roles and avoid inadvertently undermining their vital services. Join us as we celebrate the unsung heroes of the dog world and learn how we can all do our part to support them.

About Geralyn:

Geralyn Kelly has been working with dogs since 2002. She began in a daycare/kennel environment where she gained valuable firsthand knowledge about canine behavior. In 2004, after two years at the daycare/kennel Geralyn began her training career and has never looked back!  She began training at a large corporate pet store chain where she learned everything from Ethology, the scientific study of animal behavior, to Learning Theory, understanding how dogs learn. The core of Geralyn’s belief is that to be a great dog trainer, you must know everything about them from their origins, background, and recent changes in breeds and how their minds work.  To expand her education she has attended seminars, workshops, conferences and have met some of the greats like Ian Dunbar, Sophia Yin, Victoria Stillwell and Suzanne Hetts. After three years in the corporate world, Geralyn left the pet store chain to pursue a career with a private kennel.  Here, she developed the entire training program for this kennel from the ground up where she trained Obedience, Agility and Flyball!  In 2008 Geralyn relocated to Winston-Salem and spent four more years working for a corporate pet store chain as Store Trainer and Area Trainer where she not only held many classes in store, she trained numerous other trainers who have gone on to have successful training careers.  During this assignment she trained dogs in Obedience and Rally. 

 In December 2012, Geralyn decided she wanted to reach more animals and work more closely with their human handlers and rescue groups, so she opened her own training center, Elite Canine! 

Connect with Geralyn

Web: https://elitecanine.net/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/elitecaninetraining/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/elitecaninews/

Transcript

Unknown: 0:00

Kristen

Kristen Daukas: 0:05

daukas, welcome to Conversations on the rocks, the podcast where the drink is strong and the stories are stronger. I'm your host, Kristen daukas, and this is at your average chat fest. Here, real people spill the tea alongside their favorite drinks, from the hilarious to the heart wrenching, each episode a wild card. You'll laugh, you may cry, but you'll definitely learn something new. So grab whatever What's your whistle and buckle up. It's time to dive into the raw, the real and the ridiculously human. Let's get this chat party started. Hey everybody, it's Kristen daukas, and you are listening to this week's episode of conversations on the rocks, the show that's like your favorite drink, a little bit of this, a little bit of that, and a whole lot of unexpected twists. And I've got my first repeat guest, Jerilyn Kelly, who was with me in the very beginning. And we are going to talk about our favorite subject. Again, we're gonna talk about dogs, but this time, we are going to really niche it down, and we're gonna talk about working dogs. Although my dogs don't work, they just work at laying around. But it kind of stemmed when we were talking about the misuse or abuse of people with emotional support dogs. And so we're dedicating the next 30 minutes to your expertise on working dogs, what they are, what they really are, when they're not. And I'm gonna turn this over to you, okay,

Geralyn: 1:35

so I thought we'd start at the bottom, which is the easiest dog to talk about, and that's the therapy dog. So I always get phone calls from people that say they want to get a therapy dog for their children. And I'm, you know, it's it's a year you don't need a therapy dog for your children. So a therapy dog is someone's pet. They volunteer their time with their pet, with their handler, whether you know whoever it is, and they visit nursing homes, hospitals and things like that. They need training for that. So a lot of people, I have heard people, especially in the area, there's nursing homes that if you have your Canine Good Citizen certificate, which is a AKC sanction test, if you're able to pass that, you can come to their nursing home with just your vaccination records.

Kristen Daukas: 2:27

And what kind of test is that? What is? What does it take to become

Geralyn: 2:31

a Canine Good Citizen? Yeah, is 10 tasks, like my hands look so big, 10 tasks, and if they've had training, it should be a no brainer for them. So the it's different now because of covid, but the there's 10 tasks they have to pass. All 10 greeting a friendly stranger. Somebody walks up that they don't know and shakes their handler's hand. May I pet your dog, getting pet, and then grooming an appearance. So they have to be clean. Their nails have to be cut. Their ears have to be clean. They can't be matted, you know, basically straight from the groomer. And then you have your simples, sit down, stay come walking on a leash, walking through a crowd, greeting another dog, reaction to a distraction. And then the last one is the toughest one for them. They have to stay with a stranger for three minutes without their owners in the room or within hearing distance. Okay? So that's the toughest for them, especially if they're like Velcro dogs. You know, they get very stressed out and very nervous. So if they can pass that test, they're generally well behaved. You know, that owner has taken the time out and done the work.

Kristen Daukas: 3:40

And you offer that in elite canine, you have a class for that. That's what I thought I do.

Geralyn: 3:44

Yeah, yeah. There's you have to be an evaluator through the AKC I think I became an evaluator in 2006 you have to have two years where you did that, and you have to have two years of experience, of training. And so if you walk into a nursing home with just your canine, good citizen. You're not insured, so something were to happen, they're not going to come after you. So that's why you go with an organization. That's why you, you know, sign up with and there's tons of them. There's therapy dog International. You have Pet Partners, there's love on a leash pet Alliance. There's a whole ton of them. There's a whole handful of them. And then, of course, I have my own team, and so they're insured through my business. So anytime they do something for elite canine, they're insured, but they have to be trained. You can't have a dog that's out of control in a nursing home, because they're going to knock somebody down. They can't be a Barker. They can't be dragging their owner down the hallway. So there's a lot of training that goes into it. And you know, you have your membership fees. I don't charge a membership fee because I have insurance anyway for my business, so it doesn't really matter to me. And these guys are volunteering their time, so I don't really care about them paying me. They just have to have a T shirt, just so that they're represented. And they have, you know, when they go out and you. So every facility, for the most part, wants their shot records on file. Sometimes they ask me for an insurance, you know, a copy of my insurance, which is fine. And, you know, they they can do basically any kind of volunteer work. So art, can you see him? Yeah, our team does a lot of stuff outside of the not the norm, but we do a lot of events. We work very closely with the sheriff's department. You know, we do that. Every time I lose a student to some disease, I join in that. So we do the ALS walk. We've done some cancer walks, and then, of course, the suicide prevention walk, because lord knows how many friends I've lost to that. So, you know, they do a lot of stuff outside of the nursing homes, you know, Ronald McDonald House hospice, which is a really tough visit, and then SCC, you family house. So they do a lot of stuff. These guys, they're an amazing group of people. I couldn't ask for a better group of people. They're so dedicated. So therapy dogs require testing, and they really do require being registered with a therapy organization so that they're insured. So that's a therapy dog. As far as rights go, none. This is your pet that you're taking out to do a visit with somebody that's it. Above that is your ESA, or your emotional support animal. Now, according to the ADA laws, an emotional support animal can be a dog, a cat or a miniature horse. So unfortunately, when esas were first introduced, there was no like written what it could be. So you had people bringing snakes, squirrels, monkeys, someone brought a rooster on a plane. So they were really taking it to the extreme, because there was nothing in the ADA laws that said it's strictly these things, right, or these types of animals. So they really ruined it for everybody in plain English. So when you have an emotional support animal, you fall under two ADA laws. Number one, you can live somewhere where there's no pets allowed, as long as you have a note for a mental health care provider, like a prescription, okay, but that doesn't count for everybody, like, an Airbnb doesn't have to let you stay there. A privately rented home doesn't have to let you stay there, like there's these little tweaks in the law that you really have to read about. And then they used to be able to fly, but they don't let them fly anymore, because those people have destroyed it, or the dogs aren't trained because they don't have to be trained. An ESA is your pet that helps you. That's right. So there's no training required. There's no registration required. So when you see on social media all of those posts that go up and down all day, $165 and we'll send you your ID card, your certificate, you know there's no such thing as that. We'll register you with North Carolina, or we'll register you with the country. There is no registration required whatsoever for an emotional support animal. None. They are your pet that help you with anxiety, depression, panic attacks, things like that.

Kristen Daukas: 8:12

So when did they be in because this, we've talked about this, it might have been either in a conversation or the last time, when did that go into effect, that they couldn't, because you told me that the last time we talked about the, you know, esas can't fly anymore, because everybody abused the system. I was just on a flight, and there was a dog, but I don't know if he was ESA he could have been. How big was he? Uh, he was, he was going to be big because he would he looked like he was like a six month lab puppy, and this was just a couple of weeks ago

Geralyn: 8:46

that could have been a puppy nanny. So the breeders have puppy nannies. So if the dogs are big enough to go under the seat, they can fly even an older dog, like a Yorkie or a little tiddle tidy poodle, they can fly with you in the cabin if their crate fits under the seat. But the puppy nannies come from all over the country and deliver the puppies from these breeders. Wait, so this is an actual job. Wait,

Kristen Daukas: 9:11

I Yeah. Wait, how do I

Geralyn: 9:14

Yeah, yeah. So puppy nannies are a big thing now, and puppy nanny, yeah. So that could have been a puppy nanny, or that could be somebody who flew out to get their puppy and was flying home, but as long as they're small enough, they can be in the cabin with you, okay, but the ESA went into effect, I want to say pre covid, because of the man who brought the snake on the plane. I believe that was the last resort. This is not a federal law. This is the FAA. Okay, this is, they have their own set of rules the FAA. So they said, No more. Then there was a guy who was renting an apartment, and they said, We're sorry, you can't have a pretzel squirrel. And he said, Oh, no, no. He's my ESA.

Kristen Daukas: 9:58

He had a pet. I remember. The rooster, yeah, and the rooster.

Geralyn: 10:02

So there's a lot of you know, people take advantage, unfortunately, and then it ruins it for the people who actually really need an ESA on a flight, yeah? So that's an ESA again, no training is required whatsoever, no registration is required at all, nothing. They don't have to wear anything. They don't need an ID card. They're basically for you at home. Okay, that's it. So I use Colt as an ESA because I have a panic. I have panic attacks. Now all four of them will come up on the bed with me. So I have like four, but I can't take him anywhere. He can't go into a restaurant, he can't go into the mall, he can't he can't go anywhere unless I read from someone, and I have a letter from a mental health care provider. That's it.

Kristen Daukas: 10:47

So esas are not supposed to be able to go into Gresham anyplace, correct? And they are friendly,

Geralyn: 10:55

Oh, yeah. And they do so, I mean, and that stems from the top of the tier, the service dog. So service dogs are, by definition, is a dog that provides a service. You're blind, they help you walk, they help you find things. You're deaf, that's an alert service dog. So I trained Romeo, oh, my God, so many years ago. It has to be at least, at least 20 years ago, maybe 19. And Romeo was this little, tiny chihuahua mix, and his mom was deaf, and so she wanted to live on her own. She was living with her mom, and she said, I want to live on my own, but my mother's afraid. So. We had this line of touch lamps, and they all had a different color bulb in them. And when we made a sound like like the beep, beep, beep of the smoke detector, Romeo knew to hit the red light and the red light would come on so she could see the light as opposed to hearing it. But because she spoke so differently than I did. So I say sit where she said she did all the training. Oh, wow. I never asked that dog to sit or lay down or touch or anything, because my verbiage was different than hers, sure. So she did every single thing. And Romeo was a perfect dog. I mean, he was a great, service dog so deaf, blind, diabetic, now diabetic, there's another issue, another problem. There is a trainer in Virginia. There's one in Charlotte, both with mound of lawsuits on them. Diabetic detection is a very specialized service dog training. When you're diabetic, your body, mostly through your mouth, releases a smell that the dogs can smell. They say it smells like fruit loops. So the way a diabetic detection dog is trained, they're trained by somebody, for the most part, who is diabetic. Okay? And they themselves allow their sugar numbers to go up and down in a controlled way so that the dog knows what to look for. So those two kennels released dogs that were not trained, and someone almost died from a diabetic coma because the dog didn't alert. The one in Charlotte sold someone here local $35,000 her dog, her son, was autistic, and so they wanted to train him to boundary him in the yard, so if he tried to get out of the yard, the dog would block him, so they couldn't go out of the yard. Well, he was in the yard with the dog on a leash. He went up the back steps and fell down into a seizure, and he let go of the leash, and the dog ran away. Oh, so when you have your you know they're not detecting a seizure, they're detecting the different vibes coming from your body, or heart rate, things like that. These are specialized trainers. So when I see local trainers that are like, Oh, I do diabetic training. I'm like, Are you sure you do diabetic training? You know, I'm not saying that they don't. Maybe they do, but it's such a specialized training that you're dealing with someone's life, right? So people call me all the time, and I'm like, I don't do that. I don't do any kind of life saving service dog training. So, deaf, blind, diabetic seizure. And then you do have your, of course, your PTSD dogs. And these dogs are amazing. I mean, they're amazing. Usually a soldier will have them. And I saw one in Walmart one time. The was a German Shepherd, and he was online. The guy was online, and the dog did a constant rotation around him so nobody could get close. And every time the guy moved up, the dog shifted forward. Wow. You created this barrier. You know, sometimes you're online and people are like, yeah, and you're like, I can smell your breath. Can you back up? So this dog eliminates that, wow. And just a constant circling while the guy was online. It was amazing for me to watch it. And of course, you know, you have your dogs that will get your medication. Are things that drop on the ground so someone who's paralyzed can use a service dog, so they have to physically do something for their human. And that's where people don't understand and they want a dog. They want their dog to go everywhere with them. If I'm eating at a restaurant, I don't want to know what Colt is doing. I'm relaxing with my friends and I'm eating. I don't want to be worried about him whining or getting up or, you know, trying to go over to say hello to somebody. He doesn't need to be in the grocery store with me. He doesn't need to be, you know, every I don't want to take him everywhere with me. He doesn't need to go to certain places. So service dogs, fake service dogs. I can usually point them out. You have the little chihuahua in the basket in the grocery store with the lady on the electric wheelchair that most likely is not a service dog, right? What is that little dog doing? Right? I mean, like, what is that little dog doing right? So when you look at the American Disabilities Act, unfortunately, it needs to be rewritten. Pretty much needs to be rewritten. A service dog does not have to have a vest on, so they don't have to have any identification on them, nothing. There's no service dog registration. So again, when you see those NC service dog register. Or you see a trainer that says, we'll help you register your dog. There's no such thing anybody can say their dog is a service dog. So when people walk into the grocery store, no one's going to question them because they're afraid they're going to get sued, right? So you can ask a service dog owner two questions, or handler, is that a service dog? And if yes, what kind of service does it provide? Not? What kind of ailment Do you have? Just, what does the dog do for you? Right? You can ask those two questions. Other than that, you can't ask them anything else. And if they say yes, it's a service dog and give you some kind of ailment, who are you to say that that's not the case, because someone who has diabetes may not look like they have diabetes, right? Or seizure disorder. You can't tell that someone who's deaf unless you're actually talking to them, you know, with sign language, or they can read your lips. You don't know that they're deaf. And if you say no, you can't come in here. And that dog happens to be a real service dog, you're done that they will sue you so fast, and they will always win. So it is kind of tough for these businesses, because they're afraid, sure. So a service dog can go anywhere their owner goes, except an operating room, because of the sterile surroundings. So anywhere they go, they can take them, plane, boat, taxi, you know, Uber, anything like that. They can go with them. But again, they don't have to have any kind of identification.

Unknown: 17:54

Some podcasts sound old, weather beaten and dull. Now there's a podcast called Wheeler's dog made with space age polymers. Wheeler's dog podcast requires no rubbing, no buffing. It is a humor podcast that restores the luster, makes the ears refreshed again. We ran the Wheelers dog podcast through 50 consecutive car washes, despite all the scrubbing the heart, detergents and steam, the Wheelers dog podcast retain its glow. Get the Wheelers dog podcast, wherever you get podcasts.

Kristen Daukas: 18:23

So when it comes to we'll go back to the PTSD, you know, because it's German shepherd. And, you know, I have a soft spot for those, but they're big dogs. Okay, so let's talk about the airplanes. Do they? And they're not fitting underneath the seat, especially the way, the way airplanes are built. Now, do they? Do you have, did they have to buy a seat for the dog. I mean,

Geralyn: 18:42

the dog lays on the floor underneath their feet. Okay, so when you have a service dog, if they're properly trained, you should never know they're there absolutely. So I was at Milner's, this was few years ago, and there was a two couples sitting next to me, a little bit older than us, and I was there with Jenny and Marwan. And what is that

Kristen Daukas: 19:03

you made some kind of hand gesture to give thumbs up.

Geralyn: 19:08

Oh, wow, that was weird. Okay, so they were sitting, I mean, they were like, eating when we sat down, and so we're just sitting there, and all of a sudden they all get up, and I see this little dog, and I was like, oh, there was a dog under the table. So I said to Jenny, that's a nicely, well trained service dog. So I said, I'm sorry. I have to go tell them. So I went out and I caught them outside in the front, and I said, I just want to say how wonderful it was that I had no idea your dog was under there. And I said, who I was, you know, and what I do for a living, and why I wasn't just some weirdo running up on them. And they said, Oh yeah, you'd never know she was anywhere that we are. So when they're out, if you see a dog with a service dog vest on, sitting in the chair or in a booth next to the owner, that's not a service dog, they have to be honest. Lure. They have to be walking. They have to be on a leash. They can't be reactive. They're not allowed to growl at other dogs. They're basically trained to never really take their eyes off of you, protect you, right? So I was amazed by this little dog. I mean, just beautifully behaved to me, that's a service dog. Yeah,

Kristen Daukas: 20:26

yeah. And I really started seeing the abuse of the system last year when I was down in Florida, and we were at a restaurant, and there was a woman who, unfortunately was in our group, who had this big old Labradoodle, and it's always a Labradoodle, always a Labradoodle that was, there was a table next to us where so we had a long table, about eight of us, and there was a booth behind us with a couple, and all of a sudden I hear this woman going, ma'am, ma'am, you need to curb your dog. And you know, the whole time, you know, this girl is going, Oh, it's my ESA, it's my ESA, it's my therapy dog. And I'm like, No, it's not. I mean, it's just the blatant lie. I mean, because they're not going to get up and walk around, even I know that, and I am no expert, you know, it's the same thing I told you about the story out in San Diego last year with, you know, sitting at the outside bar, and there was the cutest little dog sitting right in front of me, but he had his work shirt on, quote, unquote. And so, I mean, I wanted to, like, get up there and, like, wrestle with him and but I was like, Nope, he's working. Because if you don't know that, you do not they're not your pets. They're not to be petted. They're working. It's like a canine. And all of a sudden this one other lady comes up by us, and she's like, I know he's working. I know it's a service dog, but can I pet it? And she it? And she's like, Oh, I just bought that for him. He's not really a service dog. I almost lost my mind. I was like, Are you effing kidding me? You are the problem,

Geralyn: 21:53

and it's an ethical thing. Yes, too. I mean, and when people call me and I say, what does the dog need to do for you? What is the medical condition that you need the dog to be your service dog for? If they say, I just want to bring my dog everywhere, my response is, you should be thanking your lucky stars that you don't need a service dog, because that means you have something pretty desperately wrong with you. You know, whether it's a, you know, diabetes? I mean, that's diabetes is can be fatal if you go into a coma, and the person who really needs the dog now is having trouble, because you think it's okay for you to claim that your dog is a service dog, right? Yeah. And then you have the the videos of the in the mall with the kids. Do you ever see that it was all the service dogs in training? Because in North Carolina, I don't think it was here, but in North Carolina and some other states, you can use everywhere for training. So if you're a trainer and you're training a service dog, and it says service dog and training on their vest, you can go into these stores. You're allowed to do that, even though they're not fully trained yet, because how else are you going to train them in the grocery store? Right? Like that, right? So North Carolina does allow you to do that, and some of the other states do. So they were in the mall, and they were all lined up. There was maybe five or six of them. This lady walked by with her kids, and the kids wanted to pet the dogs, and the owner said, and the handler was like, no, no, they're serviced. They're in training. You're gonna die. My kid, what do you mean? They can't pet them their dog? She was screaming at these people because they wouldn't let her daughter pet the dog like I wish I had been there. I wish I had been there, because I would have definitely opened my mouth. But yeah, I mean, ah, and you know, just for your audience. If a service dog ever approaches you without a handler, you need to follow that dog, because their handler is

Kristen Daukas: 23:47

hurt. That is great advice. Say that again.

Geralyn: 23:51

So if you ever come across a service dog without their handler attached, you need to follow that dog. It will take you to the handler. They're trained, um, yeah, they're trained to do that. So like, if you're in the grocery store and a dog just comes up to you with a service dog vest on, with their leash dragging their owner somewhere in the store, you know? So, yeah, I mean, don't touch a service dog. You just touch a service dog.

Kristen Daukas: 24:15

You wouldn't touch a canine, you know. You wouldn't right, if you ran into the sheriff, small people, be exact, like they're working, right? You know, I always just look from from afar, and just kind of go like, Boy, I sure wish I could, but you're working, it's just like you're a good working dog, and they're not cheap. Talk about the cost of service dogs. So

Geralyn: 24:38

there are certain not businesses, organizations out there that you can get a service dog for free, so you have Canine Companions for Independence. If I'm not mistaken, their service dogs are free, but there's a very long waiting list for them. But you're talking between 35 and $50,000 for a dog, and a lot of them, you have to go. To where they are. So there's a great documentary on Netflix called dogs, and the very first one takes you through all the steps of this autistic young man getting a dog. So he had to go to the facility. They had to, like, live in the state for a little while, and they had to work him in because the dog needs a connection for that sort of service work. And if the dog didn't connect with this child, they had to start fresh with a different dog. Wow, yeah. And then you have your dogs that fail, you know? So those, they usually go up for adoption. The handlers usually keep them, the the trainers. So when you have these service dogs, especially canines for companion, canines for independence, or Canine Companions for Independence. They have puppy handlers for the first 18 months of their life. So you get this little they're usually Golden, and lab mixes at like 10 or 12 weeks, and you start them with their training. And I've had a couple CCI dogs in my class, and they're just, oh my god, they're so cute. But the very first one I had when I moved here, because there's a CCI in Charlotte, was this older gentleman, and he had this little puppy, and, oh my god, he was so cute. But they were doing the jerk training, like the jerk this, and they sent me, like, a list of all of the things. So when he would turn in a heel. It wasn't left, it was left, left, right, right. He had to double everything up. Because if he's walking and somebody says, Hey, where's blah, blah, blah, and that blind person says, Oh, they just left, and that dog turns, it's going to trip the person to that person, right? So they had to double up on everything. So I was like, that's not a problem. We can do that. But everybody else in the class was using positive reinforcement with the clicker. And so he came to me, he was like, I don't feel comfortable. It was his first dog. I don't feel comfortable using, you know, that choke chain to jerk him. I said, I'm sorry, but that's what CCI wants you to use. So it's not for me to say that you can't use that. So he called CCI, and they were like, well, when they come back here, the clicker is introduced. So you could just introduce it now. But he was so sad that he had to do this to this little puppy that, you know, he convinced CCI to go against their training so that he could train him with a positive reinforcement technique. And then I had someone else. I can't remember. I just, actually, the video just went by. The dog was healing in the Mass General Store. I can't remember her name. I can't remember her name. But I had a few clients who had failed service dogs. You know, they just don't have what it takes, which is fine, you know. I mean, not every dog is built for work, right?

Unknown: 27:41

Yeah.

Kristen Daukas: 27:42

So you said labs, is that the most common service dog?

Geralyn: 27:45

Lab? Golden mixes, yeah, yeah. And they start in at four weeks. They start their training at four

Kristen Daukas: 27:50

weeks. Wow. They don't even have a chance to be puppies.

Unknown: 27:53

I know,

Geralyn: 27:54

I know. And you know, it's, it's, I have seen people with service dogs that aren't nice to their service dogs, which is very sad to me. They basically treat them like just a worker, like an employee, but for the most part, like if you go to Tucker's, you'll see service dogs running around because their owners want them to be dogs, too. And when they take the vest off, they know they're not working

Kristen Daukas: 28:17

again, like canines, you know, they have their uniform. They know, I mean any, any tick tock I've ever watched, or even, you know, any demonstrations from fsco, when that harness comes out, they know it's time to get to work, and it comes off, right? They get to be dogs, right?

Geralyn: 28:36

Is it? To me, I get that, and I that's wonderful thing, but God forbid that person has an episode that dog's not right there. Oh, that's a good that does make me a little bit nervous, like having them in your home with the vest off, because, you know, they're right there. But like in a yard, like a dog park and stuff, I mean, that dog could be all the way across the dog park, and you go into a throes of a seizure, you could have been warned to lay down if you were standing up or so some of it, I'm not a big fan of definitely at home, though, definitely at home, you know, because you're right there with them. So if you were to have a problem, they're gonna sense it, because they're so close to you. But yeah, don't touch service dogs, folks. Plain and simple, the person's not being mean, and they're not being mean to the dog. They're just not supposed to be touched. And if you're walking by a service dog with your own dog, make some room so that your dog doesn't go over to that dog. They don't need to be distracted away from their owners, right? Yeah, and like, I mean, obviously, if it was cold, he'd be like, you know, to the service dog, so they don't need that either. He's

Kristen Daukas: 29:41

like, dude, I'm just just trying to do my job. Why are you gonna be right?

Geralyn: 29:45

I don't see you. I don't see you, right?

Kristen Daukas: 29:50

All right. Well, that's cool. Wow. I learned a lot. I always learn a lot when I talk to you. Anything, anything in closing, you want to share about? How can we. Stop these posers. Man.

Geralyn: 30:02

I mean, unless the federal government goes in and makes the laws stricter, there's not really anything we can do about it. But if you need information about how to get a service dog or what the things are needed, or, you know, you need to have some questions about the ADA laws, feel free to call me. I mean, I'm very well versed in them, and they haven't changed in many, many years so. But yeah, see a service dog. Stay away from them. If you have an ESA, you can't take them everywhere. And people

Kristen Daukas: 30:29

stop taking your dogs everywhere. Anyhow, I love my dogs. Geralyn loves her dogs. We don't. It's kind of like when with when with kids. I didn't want to take my kids everywhere all the time. Let me go out and have a good time. Let me be like, and now it's like, I'm the same way. It's like, I wouldn't dream of and it bothers me. It really does bother me, and I'm a dog lover. It really bugs the crap out of me. It's like, right?

Unknown: 30:51

Well, I mean, what bothers

Geralyn: 30:53

me is like, if I'm in a brewery and I see someone's dog walking around without a leash on, this is not your home. Put your dog on a leash. There's a leash law the dogs. It says right on the front door, your dogs have to be leashed if your dog is being a jerk, take them home and don't bring them there again. Like I don't bring Colt to the breweries, because I know that he's not great on a leash and he's going to be growly. So I don't take him when I go to the breweries. I know. I wish I could, but I don't you know, if your dog is incessantly barking, take him home. I don't want to listen to that, right? You know, so and if they're under the table and they don't like to be touched because they're shy, that's great. That's fine. I mean, not whatever you know, if I don't even hear them or know that they're there, whatever, but I don't want your dog coming up to me off leash. I will pet it, but I'll be annoyed, and I will say, you really need to put your dog on a leash, you know, because it's dangerous. It is, yeah, so, like, if I had walked in like Joy mongers, there was these, this guy, he had two dogs, and won't say what kind of dogs are, because I don't want to call anybody out, but, and they were both off leash. If I had walked in the door with Colt and they had come over Colt's on a leash, but he's the threat. So even though you know your dogs are friendly and you think that it's not a big deal because maybe somebody else's dog is on a leash, they approach Colt, we're gonna have an altercation. So it's a it's a safety measure for both your dog and the other dog

Kristen Daukas: 32:22

well, and that whole we've talked about that too. It's kind of off topic, but at the same it's like people, like, will let their dogs run over and like, when Mackenzie's dog was here, Luna, Luna was very protective of Josie. And they're like, Oh, don't worry. They're friendly. I'm like, Yeah, but she's an

Geralyn: 32:36

asshole, right? Right? Okay, but mine's not exactly

Kristen Daukas: 32:41

right. And so I don't want to have to deal with, you know, because she was a part, you know, she was part Pitbull, and so strong. I'm like, now you're ruining it for me, because now I'm gonna have to pull this dog off and to keep her from, you know, charging at your friendly little dog,

Unknown: 32:57

right? And then we're gonna be, oh, look at the vicious pit bull. Oh, my God, it's always a pit bull, right?

Kristen Daukas: 33:03

And when all it was was Luna just being protective of Josie, right? Right? Because, you know, Josie can't defend herself, being bigger than all those dogs, right,

Unknown: 33:11

right? Like whatever, Jolynn, it's

Kristen Daukas: 33:15

always so much fun. We'll have to think of another topic and do this again, because it's always fun, even when we have some major disco echoing going on in the beginning. Next time, we'll have the

Unknown: 33:25

green box. So you gotta do the cabbage patch for a little bit. Yeah, absolutely. All right, everybody until

Kristen Daukas: 33:30

next time, may your cups be full, your mind be open and your heart full of kindness, because we're all battling something Till next time, as the saying goes, you don't have to go home, but you can stay here. And that's a wrap for this week's episode. A big thanks to my guests for sharing their story and to you for listening. Don't forget to share the show with your friends and spread the words. And if you'd like to be a guest on the show, the link is in the show notes till next time. Cheers. You