Chasing Normal: An Intimate Look at Surviving Abuse and Finding Purpose

In this episode, I'm chatting with author Lisa Gerardy about her upcoming memoir, "Chasing Normal." Together, we uncover her journey of courage and resilience as she bravely shares her childhood experiences of sexual abuse. This honest conversation reveals the strength it took to write and share her story with the world.

We discuss Lisa's complex relationship with her mother, who, despite her love, couldn't protect her from the abuse. We explore the lasting impact of this trauma on Lisa's life and relationships and acknowledge the harmful societal stigmas and victim-blaming attitudes she's encountered. Her journey to break free from these patterns is both inspiring and empowering.

Remarkably, Lisa used humor as a coping mechanism, a testament to the strength of the human spirit in the face of unimaginable trauma. "Chasing Normal" looks at one woman's extraordinary journey to reclaim her story and redefine her sense of normalcy. Join us as we explore the complexities of trauma, survival, and the incredible power of the human spirit.

Lisa Gerardy is a proud member of the gig economy, teaching college writing at three universities online. When she is not trying to detect AI and correct apostrophe errors, she is sharing her cringe-worthy childhood with complete strangers online. Her soon-to-be-published memoir is called Chasing Normal: Finding Love After Surviving Physical and Emotional Abuse. Lisa lives in Phoenix with her long-suffering husband and cherishes visits from her son who lives too far away. She accepts love, slobber, and many bruises from her Great Danes in her spare time. 

https://lisagerardy.substack.com/

https://lisagerardywriter.com/

https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004146033472

https://www.instagram.com/chasingnormal51/

Transcript

Kristen Daukas: 0:00

Hey friends, it's Kristen daukas, today's show. I just wanted to give you a little heads up that this episode contains sensitive materials such as abuse and sexual abuse that may be upsetting to some. With that said, let's get on with today's show. Welcome to Conversations on the rocks, the podcast where the drink is strong and the stories are stronger. I'm your host, Kristen daukas, and this isn't your average chat fest. Here. Real people spill the tea alongside their favorite drinks, from the hilarious to the heart wrenching, each episode a wild card. You'll laugh, you may cry, but you'll definitely learn something new. So grab whatever, what's your whistle and buckle up. It's time to dive into the raw, the real and the ridiculously human. Let's get this chat party started. Hey everybody, it's Kristen, and you are listening to the newest episode of conversations on the rocks, the podcast that's as random as the Tumbleweed that goes through my head on a hot summer day, and I have an author with me today. It's my first author, and I am actually an author, kinda I did a compilation, compilation so I am published. I can walk around and say I am a published author, but Lisa Girardi, who is my guest today, is a bona fide author, like she's been writing her book now, chasing normal for it's been a hot minute, hasn't it? It's been a year.

Unknown: 1:33

Yeah, well, it's been, like, a decade since I first started it. And then, you know, it's, it's a memoir, so I kind of be all gung ho, and then I like, I don't want to think about this, you know, because my childhood wasn't like a downy fabric softener commercial or anything. It was, you know, different. So it's

Kristen Daukas: 1:52

hard. Yeah, I think we were chat chatting earlier today, and I told you I've read half of it already, which I still owe you a review for Amazon so I can be a published author again. But it's an intense topic. Do you want to talk about it a little bit?

Unknown: 2:08

I mean, sure, I don't know. I

Kristen Daukas: 2:10

mean, I granted, it's in the book, but, you know, right, it's in the

Unknown: 2:13

book I was so it's been, it's always been my normal so I can talk about this very easily. And other people are like, I almost titled The memoir, making people cringe because, you know, like, I'll be in a situation like a book club, and people are like, Oh, I remember when my grandma made cookies and I'm there. Like, I remember when I went to my grandma to get help because my step uncle was molesting me, and she told me, We don't talk about that, you know. And everybody's like, and to me, it's like that, you know, it is what it is. But people hear that and they're like, Oh, wow.

Kristen Daukas: 2:48

Well, it's a very it's a hard topic that is very real, but people don't want to talk about it because it makes them uncomfortable, right? And it is a conversation that needs to happen a little bit more often, because you and I are the same. We're both Gen Xers, so we're in the same, you know, I don't call it age anymore. We're at the same game level. And you're right back then, not, you know, thank God, nothing like that ever happened to me. How? Yeah, exactly. But, you know, it's it. That was the general, oh, we don't talk about that and, yeah, it, you know, it still happens. These situations still happen. However, I'm hoping that as a society, you know, we take it a lot more seriously now, whether it's, you know, assault of a child or assault in general, it's not so much of the it's his word, their word against your word, because there's a lot of that. It's like the thing that the big viral thing a couple of months ago. Remember what the bear or like just last month? Yes, would you rather be alone with a man or a bear? And all these women and we're listing off the things that they gotta be alone with a bear, right,

Unknown: 4:03

right? Yeah, that's

Kristen Daukas: 4:05

sad that we're still in that kind of a situation, yeah, as a society. So what made you you said you've been doing it for about 10 years. You've lived with it your entire life, so over 50 years. And what was, what? What made you finally go, I'm putting this down on paper. I am going to publish this. I am going to put out my memoir. You know,

Unknown: 4:28

a couple of things. Getting involved with the nonfiction authors association was very motivating. And I watched, I forget the name of the movie, but I watched a movie on TV where she was writing about being abused, and she was always holding off on it, and then someone told her, right, like no one is going to read it. And so then I started doing that. Do you know what I'm talking about? I know

Kristen Daukas: 4:52

what you're talking about, but I can't remember the name it was that, that little piece that you just said right there,

Unknown: 4:57

right like no one's going to read it. So and that was always my, you know, fear. And then, to be honest, my mother died in 2019 and I felt more liberated to write because she is, I don't know what planet she lived on during those years, but it certainly wasn't the same one I'm on, because her recollection is very different. How

Kristen Daukas: 5:20

was your relationship with your mom as an adult? It

Unknown: 5:24

had stages, so I had to kind of divide her into two people, then Mom and now mom. She got better as I got older, and my stepdad, even though he was a bigot and whatever was like the best man she brought into our life, and he told her, you know, stop hitting her. Go easy on her. She's a good kid. So sorry. My younger years, like 20s, I was okay with her, you know, she'd still give me money buy me things for my apartment. But as I got older and as my son got older, I got angrier because I love my son so much, I couldn't understand how she did not do anything when I told her about sexual abuse she did nothing, and how she could talk the way she talked to me and hit me and stuff, you know, like. So it got worse, and then I would just, I felt bad for her, because as she got older, my brother had, like, he was off the face of the earth. We didn't know where he was, so I was all she had. So, you know, my husband used to say, I don't understand why you still talk to her. And the thing was, like, guilt, I guess, like I'm all she has. You know, we don't have a very big family. That's

Kristen Daukas: 6:43

says a lot about you. That says a lot you're in your mom, she was, she was single, right? She was a single, working mom for a lot of years. When was it that your stepdad came into the picture?

Unknown: 6:56

Um, she met him when I was 13, when I was in eighth grade.

Kristen Daukas: 7:00

So as a single working mother, do you feel, or do you think that she poo pooed it because she was having to rely on the perpetrators, and if she were to, and I'm not justifying it. Please don't take that at all. And if she were to say something, then I'm gonna be kind of crazier than the gravy train. The help the gravy train that she had would be gone, or it could turn around, and then whatever abuse was was on her. And you know which it's still just a shitty, shitty thing to do, because I will. There's only five people in the world that I would go to jail for, and three of those are my children, and it is and you know, granted, some days I feel like I need to go to jail because of them. But you know that is as a mother. And you know this, you're a mom yourself. I mean, did you ever ask her why?

Unknown: 8:01

No, I never really talked much about it as an adult. The one time there was one time I saw her have, like, guilt or feelings about it, I in my early 20s, is when my GI system started really bugging me, and I was I prepped and I was supposed to have a lower GI, which is a barium enema. Fun, fun time.

Kristen Daukas: 8:26

This town needs an enema. Yeah, that's my favorite line from Batman.

Unknown: 8:33

So she took me to the hospital to have this test only they they do not at least 20 years ago, or when, no, this was 30 years ago. I'm lying to myself about my age. They did not knock me out or anything. And I they, they did not even get the thing there. And I was hyperventilating, and I jumped off the the gurney, or whatever. It's not a gurney, whatever the bench is they put you on. And I went back to where my mom was waiting, and I was hyperventilating and crying, and she got mad at not herself, really, but she was like, you know, effing Norman. My step uncle was Norman, which is a terrible name. Sorry to all the Normans out there, but that name just norms. Terrible name, Psycho is extra scary for being, you know, so she did, like, show some feelings about it, but she never really, I don't know. I don't know if, if she had the ability to be a better thinker and communicator. I don't know.

Kristen Daukas: 9:41

I have to believe that in some way, that the guilt she felt had to carry over. And I just have to, in my mom heart, I have to, you know, she knew what it was, that it wasn't right. So I have to hope and believe that. You know. So she didn't talk about it, she avoided it, but at the same time, she maybe internally acknowledged the fact that what she did was really awful or didn't prevent what was the most challenging part. Do you think about writing about this,

Unknown: 10:13

sharing, you know, it's it's weird, but like you said, We're Gen X, so my, my arc, I guess, is, you know, the abuse happen, and then I had horrible relationships, and then I found Chris. So the horrible relationships, I internally slut shame myself. I was like, wow, I was a big old slut, you know. So that was tough. It was tough to be honest, and I'm not even including everything like this is my best version of honest about my dating life, and I don't have shame over being sexually abused because I didn't do that. That wasn't my fault. But then the day

Kristen Daukas: 10:53

you weren't wearing that little princess dress, I

Unknown: 10:57

wasn't. I never understood why people didn't believe me or do anything, because this was in the 70s, right? It's not like we had the internet. How do I know what a what male genitalia looks like? You know, I didn't have access to anything. So why wouldn't

Kristen Daukas: 11:12

you believe a little kid? Because they didn't want to, they didn't want to have to do anything about it. That's right, that's going to get that ish is going to get ugly. And, you know, I, I've known, unfortunately, I've known women and young ladies who have who've dealt with sexual assault older and even in the 21st century, there's still that, well, what were you doing? What were what were you wearing? Did you were you drinking? I'm like, I remember telling my girls, like, I don't care if you are standing Buck ass naked, holding a 12 pack of beer, and no is no, and that is it. And I will come after somebody if that is the case. But a lot of times too, it doesn't, these guys get away with it, or these people get away with it, because our judicial system is set up so that the victim is victimized twice, right?

Unknown: 12:12

So when I lived in Ohio, I was on a grand jury, which was interesting. I'm a nosy person. I actually like jury duty, but they saved the sexual assaults for after lunch. So it was always, you know, troubling. And this young woman came in, you know, an acquaintance had raped her, had kidnapped her and raped her, actually had kept her against her will. And usually the perpetrator doesn't come in to give testimony, but he did, he did, and he was just all handsome and denying everything and like, oh, it was consensual, because DNA evidence doesn't nail them. They can just say it was consensual, right? So what really angered me about the situation is the three women sitting across the table from me on the jury who are like, Well, you said she was a dancer. Yeah, because she was a dancer, she deserved to be kidnapped and taken like he offered her a ride home, and he did not let her get out of the car, took her to his house, tied her up the whole nine yards, and no, but she's a dancer, right, so

Kristen Daukas: 13:17

that makes it okay, yeah,

Unknown: 13:19

yeah. I don't know what happened with that case, but I don't I wouldn't be surprised if he was not found not guilty of

Kristen Daukas: 13:26

probably because she was a dancer. Well, that's another thing. This is totally off subject, but kind of on topic, which is the whole why sex workers, the whole sex work thing just needs to be legalized. Yeah. Yeah. I mean to take away, if we can start getting rid of the stigma and the connotation behind some of these things, you know, these, these people, I won't just say lady, you know, young ladies, or girls, or whatever, they're just trying to make a living. They should be safe. They should be safe. But that's the reason why a lot of them, unfortunately, then run down the addict path that goes with it. What about your son and what about Chris? How did they, I mean, how did talk a little bit about how? Because, again, very sensitive topic, right? Not only is it a sensitive topic, but now it's my mom and my wife having to go through that. How did, how did, how did that work? Pan not pan out. But, you know, well, how was that,

Unknown: 14:27

since that happened to me, and I've always been pretty open with my son at whatever age, like, whatever level he could handle, you know, I have asked him his entire life if anybody has touched him inappropriately. He's 27 I still do, because he once told his friend, like, gosh, if something happened to me, I wouldn't tell my mom, because she'd be in jail. So I asked him all the time, now, are you sure? Are you just not telling me because you know I'll go kill him or so he he's known his whole life. I did send them the. First draft of my book, and Chris, he doesn't want to read it because of the dating stuff. And there's a, you know, boyfriend in college that was abusive to me, but we had wonderful sex, so you know, that's kind of he doesn't want to hear it. And my son started reading it, and he texted me, said, Mom, I'm sure this is going to be a page turner, but you're my mom, so it's hard for them to read.

Kristen Daukas: 15:28

But how were they through the process? I'm sure they were supportive, right? Oh, definitely,

Unknown: 15:32

definitely, yeah, yeah. And did you, were

Kristen Daukas: 15:35

you, were you able to work through some of those things with them? I mean, I mean, you're a very open and honest person, I can't see ever that you would have not been open and honest and transparent with them about the situation. So really, it's no surprise, except for the fact that you're just writing a 250 page, 300 page book, right,

Unknown: 15:53

right? Yeah, no, I've always been open with them and medical things like Kristen daukas office, because she wanted to do a uterine biopsy. And I somebody, they attempted that on me before, and I said, No, you have to knock me out any anything deep orifice like that. I have to be unconscious because it's weird. There's a book I think the body remembers, or something like that. I have it over there. But, um, even though I go in to these situations knowing that they are not there to hurt me, my body just goes nuts if we're if we're doing anything rectal or beyond the cervix, you know, it's almost like muscle memory, yeah, yeah. So he's seen me do that, like, and then they had to schedule a DNC because I was like, No, I need to you are not doing that?

Kristen Daukas: 16:50

You? I mean, we've known each other for a long time. We kind of grew up in the blogging world together, and your sense of humor has always been a key piece of I mean, you're funny, you're funny as shit.

Unknown: 17:03

Shit can be unfunny too, though it sure

Kristen Daukas: 17:05

can, but yours is funny. Do you think, you know, it is very true that, you know humor sometimes hides our trauma, right? That's how we deal with things. Do you think, and I, you know, I'm a pretty punny and, you know, witty kind of person too. I'm not. I don't take a lot of things very seriously. And I know sometimes that that's, you know, it's easier to deal with these things with humor. Do you think that that? Let me ask you this way, were you the little comic when you were young? Oh, yeah. So you've all Do you think it's always though, been kind of a way to not have to deal with the demons face on it's easier to deal with them.

Unknown: 17:45

Definitely, when I first realized I was funny, was eighth grade. I had moved to a new school before my mom met John, and my old school was very tough, like hood school, but the boundaries changed. I got to this new school, and it's all these people, I don't know, and I just started cracking jokes. And then all of a sudden, I, you know, was in with the preps. And so I thought, wow, that's, you know, it's good that I'm funny. And then the first time John met me, he had us to that we lived in the same apartment building as he did, and he had us to his apartment for dinner. And I was just, you know, my mom had dated rod for seven years. Who she got older, didn't exist. She's like, I never dated when Lisa was little. Like, okay, and he was horrible. So I, you know, like, oh, here we go again. Janet's picked out another man. Let me, you know, get rid of them. And I was just tearing into him, because I can really hurt people with my words. It's, it's both a good thing and a bad thing sometimes.

Kristen Daukas: 18:50

And no, I understand that, believe me. And

Unknown: 18:54

he just, he laughed and laughed, and he goes, you got that he was much older than my mom. He's like, You got the gift of gab kid. He says, You remind me of Joan Rivers. And I was like, who's Joan Rivers? You don't know who's Italian too. You don't know who Joan Rivers is. And he got me the album for Christmas, one of her album, young people, the vinyl, the vinyl before, yeah, so, yeah. He got me into basically, and then I started doing comedy, you know, like, eight years later, I would say, when

Kristen Daukas: 19:25

did you finally break out? Break out. Like, when did you, like, break out from your mom. How old were you? Oh, like, when did you leave to go out on your own? Did you go to college? Did

Unknown: 19:35

you go to college? I did so my mom made me. I had the boyfriend that nobody liked. I didn't want to go away to college. I'm not a partier. I'm I like to read, but I got into Florida State, and she made me, made me go. She's like, No, you're going. I'm like, but I could go to community college and it's right here. And they're like, No. And. Plus my stepdad was so much older, he'd raised his kid, so he wanted me out. So 17, I drove nine hours to Florida State in my Chevy Chevette. But then I really hated it, so the next year, I moved back in with them and went to school locally. But then when I was 22 my stepdad was like starting he's like taking me to look at apartments that are in terrible places, but you know that I could afford. So I moved in with the man who is now my ex husband, because they wanted me out and you know he had room. So I just moved in with him, and I tell my son now, you know, you wouldn't be here if my parents were nicer,

Kristen Daukas: 20:44

because he's from your first marriage. Oh, yeah, yeah.

Unknown: 20:47

But he, he gets along with Chris better, I would say.

Kristen Daukas: 20:52

But isn't it kind of interesting, though, had you not had a different approach, or some, you know, just a different mindset having lived through that, how easy it would have been for you to fall into the same trap that your mom did.

Unknown: 21:08

I did repeat some of her behavior. I mean, I, you know, have divorce. I I did hit Sergio when he was younger. I think when he was about eight is when I, I met Chris, and I was just like, I need to learn how to be a parent. I can't, you know, I can't hit him. That's just not helpful. And he's so smart, even as a little kid, that helped me to be able to talk to him instead of lose my shit, right? So I did have a therapist. When I was going through my divorce, I went to a therapist, and, like I said, I never thought really much about how old I was when I was abused. I was two, and she said, how that? She said, That's profound abuse. How are you not on a corner right now? And I just said, because I don't want to be, I don't

Kristen Daukas: 21:56

know it's a it's a good testament to your strong will, because I can totally, I mean, when I went through my divorce, I did a lot of self work, right? Because you have to, and I didn't necessarily want to go to a therapist, so I said, Okay, well, I'm gonna read. And boy, did I learn a lot about myself and my behaviors. Like, you know, I was, I was, you know, we were both latchkey kids, but I was the latchkey kid. And, you know, I couldn't understand why I kept chasing after unemotionally, emotionally unavailable people, and that I was an emotionally unavailable person. But why am I an emotionally unavailable person? Because I got no emotion at home kind of thing. And it's like, once you start going through this, and you start, and then you get to the point that, until you work on yourself, you're going to keep chasing that. You're going to keep chasing whether it's mommy issues or daddy issues. You're going to keep trying to for me, it was, you know, my stepdad. I could never, I was never good enough for him, and if I was, he didn't let me know. It was always, You could do this better. You could do that better. So I was always in my entire life. And you know, in my dating life, in my marriage life, in my post marriage life, I was always trying to prove that I was worthy, and because I was trying to prove it to the wrong people. So, I mean, we were destined to repeat these patterns until we finally go, okay, until we can name it right. Once you can name it, then you're like, oh, okay, now, now, let's get our ish together, and let's, let's start from here, right? I came into that naming thing a couple of years ago. What years? This is 2024, so my youngest moved out to of the house like so the beginning of empty nesting. And I was so it was, I didn't put a name to it, but I was, like, a couple of months later, I was like, What is wrong with me? Like, I'm just like, meh. Like, I don't want to do this. I don't want to do that. And it finally clicked on me that I was depressed, yeah, oh yeah. That, that huge piece of my life, of being an active mother, an active parent, was done. And once I put, once I put the once I was able to label it, then I was able to fix it.

Unknown: 24:11

Yeah, no, that does help, um, with relationships, a therapist I saw, um, before I even married my ex husband, which I shouldn't have, but said that I create chaos. Because if you're used to chaos, if you grew up with chaos, you recreate it. So in relationships, I was either the abused or the abuser, not physical. I've never physically abused a man, but just, you know, cheated, laughed, whatever you know, just hurt them somehow. So I think when I met Chris, a couple things had happened. I had to talk to myself in my head, and I said, You do not have to date men who need to be fixed, and you can just date someone who's nice to you like you can allow, you can allow that to happen. You. Know so and you don't have to try to destroy it, because I did. I remember one time when we were engaged, like being real mean to him, and he was just and then I caught myself. I'm like, What am I doing?

Kristen Daukas: 25:13

I've had to have the conversation several times with people, and I did the same thing until I did the work on myself, which is the whole Spark, the butterflies, yes. And I'm like, I've had I'm like, that's not good. Society has has lied to us and told us that if you don't feel sparks and butterflies, it's not the right person. And I'm like, Oh no, that's your body telling you run, that's your fight or flight coming in, and that's an adrenaline and safe feels boring because you don't feel that.

Unknown: 25:48

No, for sure, for sure, the relationship I had in high school my senior year wasted my whole senior year on this. This guy was like that, butterflies and excitement, and I lost a bunch of weight because I wasn't eating and, you know, it was Yeah, and it

Kristen Daukas: 26:04

was your adrenaline,

Unknown: 26:05

yeah.

Kristen Daukas: 26:06

How's the process? We're gonna segue a little bit, because we're probably got about another 10 minutes left. But let's talk about the process, the fun part of writing a book. So, I mean, I've never actually written my own book. I had, you know, when I contributed, it was somebody else taking care of it. What happens now? Okay, so the book comes out in November, after the election. She made sure to point out after the

Unknown: 26:27

election nothing to do with

Kristen Daukas: 26:31

so the book so you are, is it done? Has it gone to print yet? I know you had mentioned to me that you had some more edits. Editing,

Unknown: 26:38

yeah, I'm doing one more revision, because I sent it a couple months ago to a developmental editor, and she, you know, really said, No, you need to do a lot here. So I'm doing what she said, and I will probably, it'll probably be completed, completed by September 15, and then that would give me a couple months to do things like this, and, you know, all those other things promote I guess I'm not good at that, but I have to try. Now. It's been fun. And

Kristen Daukas: 27:15

then, so then the book goes on sale. You know, it's not like the it's not like they, they used to make it seem in the movies and TV shows you're not going on like, you know, 50 city tour.

Unknown: 27:26

No, no. I very much want Jenna Bush Hagar to interview me on the Today Show. But, you know, I don't, I don't think I just can call her and say, hey,

Kristen Daukas: 27:37

why not, bestie?

Unknown: 27:38

I'm stopping in. Hey, happen to be in

Kristen Daukas: 27:43

the neighborhood, yeah, well, you should, and then are you going to do anything else? Is this your one and done? Do you think this will motivate you to do other published pieces? Oh,

Unknown: 27:54

I am working on a journal with with prompts, and it's called say nope to normal. So I am going to get that out sometime after the book. I want to speak more, because I know, you know, this kind of thing happens to a lot of people out there, so I would like to go speak. I find it easy to speak about my abuse. I i tend, you know, like I said, I tend to make other people uncomfortable when I talk about it, but I can talk about it, I don't know. I see myself trying to help younger women and girls more to get through that, to move on. I

Kristen Daukas: 28:35

think it will, yeah, and I think it will. I mean, it kind of goes back to you know, it's a catastrophic thing to have happen, right? And it can very easily define the rest of your life. And there has to be a choice made. Because if you don't make a choice, and I'm not saying get over it, right? Because do you ever really get over it however, you can make the choice to whether or not how much it's going to define you in your life and your future. You know it's, it's just, it's something I'd never wish on anyone, but how you choose to move on with your life, it says a lot about you and a lot about the family and friends that surround you and support you through this. I think it's I think it's fantastic. I'm glad you did it. I'm glad I've known you so you know the name of the book is chasing normal, just as we close out in your eight year old, nine year old self, what was normal to you? I

Unknown: 29:39

had friends who, okay, so Jenny was my best friend in eighth grade. Her mom stayed home, and she was nice. She didn't scream at us or anything. Jenny was in Girl Scouts, and she took dance classes, and her mom cooked like we were big on TV dinner. And drive through, you know, and and her dad did not sexually abuse her, so it was just like that, like that was normal. And so in high school, and later, when I dated people that I was not compatible with, part of it was, Oh, his family is normal. And then I could be in that family, you know, and

Kristen Daukas: 30:22

now you know it. When did your definition of normal change? And then what does normal look like to you now?

Unknown: 30:31

Oh, I'm never gonna be normal, because I, you know, I, I say whatever comes to my mind, I'm like Sophia on the Golden Girls. That's who I identify with. Yeah, normal is anything, but that is your normal, yeah, my normal is that I'm a little nutty. Is, and I didn't realize. I mean, I think it took me a long time, is, when I was younger, I thought, yeah, I was sexually abused, but I'm fine. No, I wasn't fine. You know,

Kristen Daukas: 30:59

just burying it? Yeah, it's just like the gift that keeps on giving until you unwrap it.

Unknown: 31:06

That's a good thing. Yeah, that's a good thought. I need that printed.

Kristen Daukas: 31:13

Lisa, thank you so much for taking time to tell your story. Can't wait. I'm gonna finish the book and I'm gonna get you your quote, your review, I promise, because I know it's important, and see that's why I have to have a deadline. Because if you don't give me a deadline, I'll be like, my deadline is coming, because you said I need to have it by September. And I'm like, Okay, I got it.

Unknown: 31:34

Thank you. Yeah, I do want to put something inside the book to have a page of quotes. So, oh, nice to do that. Yeah, very

Kristen Daukas: 31:42

nice little and I like the journal. You know, journaling is good and you know, it helps us. Writing things down helps us process a lot. You know, just getting it out sometimes, you know, just putting it on paper is the first step to really getting things out. The catharticism of it is really good. So Well, the best of luck to you. I hope it lands on the New York Times bestseller list. But more importantly, I just hope you have fun with it and that it is everything that you want it to be. So thanks again, everybody. Thank you. This has been an insightful and you know, different conversation, which I love. You know, I love me some good conversations. I hope everyone is well and until the next time we speak again or listen again, May the road before you always be free of snow. How's that one for this week? All right, yeah, Ready Talk to you later. As the saying goes, you don't have to go home, but you can stay here, and that's a wrap for this week's episode. A big thanks to my guests for sharing their story and to you for listening. Don't forget to share the show with your friends and spread the words. And if you'd like to be a guest on the show, the link is in the show notes till next time. Cheers. You.