Pronouns and Pours: Uncorking Gen Z's Voice on LGBTQ Representation

This week, we dig into LGBTQ+ representation in media from the Gen Z perspective. I'm joined by guest Ariana "Ari" Mrdjenovich as we explore progress, challenges, and the future of inclusive storytelling. Ari, a 25-year-old Gen Z member, shares personal experiences and perspectives on the importance of diverse characters and relationships in TV, movies, and media.

The conversation includes various examples, such as shows like Pose, Sense8, Schitt's Creek, and Bridgerton. It discusses the impact of positive and problematic tropes, highlighting the necessity for authentic LGBTQ+ characters that go beyond stereotypes. The discussion also addresses the pushback against increased representation and the significance of media reflecting the diversity within the LGBTQ+ community. 

Throughout the episode, insightful commentary is provided on the influence of representation in shaping societal attitudes and increasing visibility for marginalized groups.

Transcript

Kristen Daukas: 0:00

Kristen, welcome to Conversations on the rocks, the podcast where the drink is strong and the stories are stronger. I'm your host, Kristen daukas, and this isn't your average chat fest. Here, real people spill the tea alongside their favorite drinks, from the hilarious to the heart wrenching, each episode a wild card. You'll laugh, you may cry, but you'll definitely learn something new. So grab whatever, what's your whistle and buckle up. It's time to dive into the raw, the real and the ridiculously human. Let's get this chat party started. Hey everybody, it's Kristen, and you are listening to the latest episode of conversations on the rocks, the show that is as random as the Tumbleweed that rolls through my head. And we are doing our second episode of my very special Gen Z focus. And with me today, I have Ariana mergenievich. We know her is Ari, and I just want y'all to know that's only the second time I've ever said her last name, and I got it right. And because my last name is Doukas, I'm very particular about that, because it's like, I taught the girls at a really young age. And I don't, I want to hear how you would do this to correct people. They're like, I don't, you know, because, of course, it's daukas, and you know what, Dukakis, I mean, like, we're not great people. We're Lithuanian, yeah. And so I finally taught that, and this is when I met their dad. I had to do this, which was Hocus Pocus daukas, right? And so, and so, and they were like, I don't want to correct somebody. I'm like, No, you need to, it's your name, otherwise you're going to be doing this your entire life. So did you have a little, like, rhymey thing or something to help people with your last name? And did I get it right the second time? Yeah, you did

Unknown: 1:55

with the last name. Honestly, I viewed that as a lost cause. I was like, people. It was like, I also played baseball so and people got my first and last name wrong. So it was like, every time I was up to bat, it was like, uh, Brianna, more something like, they just couldn't say it. So the one thing I do correct people on is my first name. And I always just say, like, are Yana, like a pirate. And that usually sticks. That's usually my my ringer, Ariana and Ariel and Adriana, all that stuff. Ariana.

Kristen Daukas: 2:31

So like, if you're like me, like when you make a reservation and they go, how do you spell that? I always like, spell it however you want to. Yeah.

Unknown: 2:39

Well actually, I have 11 letters my last name, so it goes perfectly with the Mickey Mouse theme song. So you can do M, Marty, J, E, N, O, V, I, C, H,

Kristen Daukas: 2:49

oh my god. I love it. I think Sydney tried to tell me something like that and but she she even messed that up. So you guys, Ari, who is we're how we I know her as, and that's how we're going to refer to as throughout this is a very close friend of my middle Sydney, and she lives in the lovely area of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, home of the black and gold everything.

Unknown: 3:13

Oh yeah, Steel City.

Kristen Daukas: 3:16

So I've known you now for like, a couple of years. Has it been a couple of years?

Unknown: 3:20

I think it's been a little over one

Kristen Daukas: 3:22

I think How long have you been at the same job with Sid and I started working

Unknown: 3:28

together, like two and a half years ago, but we didn't really fully come together as friends for a while, which I don't I don't even know how that happened, but

Kristen Daukas: 3:37

Yeah, same considering how good friends you are now, tell us a little bit about yourself. Well, I'm

Unknown: 3:42

25 years old. I'm going to be turning 26 and that's coming up soon, in August. My 26 is a very daunting age. It's the insurance list year of life. So I work at the melting pot, singing fondue,

Kristen Daukas: 3:57

hopefully not literally, because that would be really messy.

Unknown: 4:00

I'm lucky to be one of the servers that have not spilled anything on on any guests. There's some horror stories out there, for sure, hot pots plus guests is not it's not a good combo,

Kristen Daukas: 4:12

for sure. Not at all. But

Unknown: 4:14

yeah, I'm working at the melting pot. I'm going back to school in the fall, going to be taking ASL classes to eventually be an ASL interpreter. So I love it.

Kristen Daukas: 4:26

I love it. So last week, I had my eldest child who is the exact same age as you. I didn't realize that you're a month older than Mackenzie, because her birthday is in September. She'll be 26 and everyone who knows me and wants to start getting into anything or any conversation. Knows how much I love your generation. I think your generation is definitely going to save, if anything can save our world right now, it's your generation, Gen X. We don't care. We don't you know, nobody paying attention. Us our entire life. So why should we care? Now? I love the meme. It says that we're the generation between, you know, Millennials and Boomers, and just watching them, you know, go at it. We're like, peace out. But I love your generation. I have always gotten so much energy out of you guys, and I really do you're you're going to do remarkable things. You guys are. You're not afraid to push back. You know you you recognize what the quality of life is that you want. There's just so much good about you. You're very fluid. You're not afraid to be who you are. And I think a lot of that. And you know, well, I know in SIDS and her sisters. It's a lot. It's because of my generation, right? Because, you know, we were kind of that first gen. Well, again, we were the Forgotten generation. So we were just like, we're going to do things our way, right? And so we kind of set the set the table for you, if you will. But when you and I first started talking, I was very intrigued by your topic, and it's one that I think is so interesting because it's not one that we really think about too much, and we really need to a little bit more, and that is the LGBTQ representation in media. Talk to me a little bit about that. I

Unknown: 6:21

mean, this is something that I've always been kind of passionate about, because I'm gay, so like growing up in that kind of, I don't know, growing up as gay, you look for yourself as just like a person. You look for yourself in media. You want to see reflection so you can relate. Because I feel like that's what media is all about. Like TV shows, if you want to watch love stories that give you hope for the love that you'll one day have. And like, I don't know. I just feel like that's like the beauty of television. And so I don't know it's just something I've been passionate about. I feel like whenever you're able, and also, honestly, I think it impacts society, like whenever close minded, you could say closed minded people, see somebody in maybe a minority group that they maybe in real life, don't agree with that lifestyle or whatever, and then they fall in love with a character. I think that impacts them. And I think that it like turns tides in society, whether it be something just as small as somebody like that, you know, that kind of situation, I just think it's important.

Kristen Daukas: 7:33

And you're right, it is very important. And you know, I've thinking back as you were saying that over the past several years, and it's nice that over the past several years, I can't even say a decade, it hasn't been a decade. It's only been in the past several years, you're starting to see your mainstream companies, your big corporations, are starting to do this. And you know, you'll get that. I'm trying to remember, we're just going to say it was Kellogg, I don't know if it was, Don't come at me if it wasn't, where they had, you know, two dads making waffles for their kid, right? And then you always have the backlash of people going, oh my god, I'm never gonna buy your waffles again. And they're like, our waffles, yeah? But there's still not enough of that, yeah? And is it ever any more evident than it is right now, where we stand as a society and the political nature of everything that's going on. Do you think we'll ever win? Do we have to wait for all of these people to die before we start seeing some equality? Because you know me, I'm a big I love my gays. I love them. I will, mama bear the shit out of them, anytime, anywhere. And it really, it ticks me off. It really does. And I sorry. I could go on and on and on about it. No,

Unknown: 8:54

the passion is real. Like, I think it's, I feel like there is so much backlash and like, in regards to, like, just waiting for people to die off. Unfortunately, that kind of mindset is just, it's always gonna exist. And honestly, no, you're right. It's like, because these people are, like, conservative people that don't like those types of people are having the most kids. They're having families of 18, you know, right? No,

Kristen Daukas: 9:22

you're right about that. And you learn what you live, which is exactly that is never going to change. You learn what you live, and if you're if your parents hate, you're going to hate Yeah. What are some of the more significant milestones or turning points that you've seen in the representation for our gay community over the years, honestly.

Unknown: 9:45

So I mean, there's the L word, The L Word has a lot of, I would say a lot of pros and cons. There's a lot of really terrible representation in L Word. But I think the beautiful thing about that TV show is that i. It's just normal. That's just like, it's just the show. And it's like there is a heavy focus on everyone being lesbians, but it's like, this is just a show about lesbians, for lesbians living in LA, just like living their little lesbian lives. And that's just, it's just normal.

Kristen Daukas: 10:16

And if you and here's my thing on that too, where it goes back to Anita, it's like, I'm sorry if you don't like it, turn it the F off. Yeah, go find all in the family, because that probably suits some of these people a little bit.

Unknown: 10:28

Yeah, and that's the thing. It's like, for every you look at 10 shows, for every nine that there are straight, there might be one that has, like, one small queer storyline, and I don't know, I just think incorporating those little roles creating some sense of normalcy, like they're out there, gay people are out there, trans people are out there. It's just like it should be reflected, because media is a reflection of reality.

Kristen Daukas: 10:58

I think we have come a long way with being a lot of people have become more accepting of our gay friends. What I am seeing a really, really tough time with these people trying to deal with now is our trans and it's almost like, okay, it's like one step forward, two steps back. We get one step forward with our, you know, our gays and our lesbians, right? Our gays, and then then from along the trans, quote, unquote, right? I'm saying that in a horrible way. But then it's like two steps back. Do you find yourself getting kind of everybody getting lumped into one bowl altogether. Does that make sense? Because it just, it's like you don't hear as much, or let me rephrase that, I'm not hearing as much roaring over the gay community now, everything's about the trans community, and a lot

Unknown: 12:01

it's like, it's shifted. They just took, I think, the same rhetoric, and then just like, shifted it toward this other group. And I think you're right. It's like, oh, I'm cool. You want to love who you want to love, whatever, but I can't with, like, these pronouns and all this stuff. It's, it's like, that's too far. Yeah, it and I just think it's a lack of understanding. We go back, back in the day it gave a gay bar. They were getting stormed by the police because it was just like it was indecent. And I think a lot of the stuff going on out there is, is, it's just transferring to a different enemy. It's, it's unfortunate, and I think that it's like, and going back to like, the representation in media, like in in a lot of these shows, when there is a trans character, it's like they were deceiving everybody the whole time. And I think that representation bleeds into the reality and how people view trans people like, Oh, you're you were concealing this, like, deep, dark secret this whole time. You know what I mean? Like, I don't know. I definitely think trans issues are like, way less accepted and way less like, the common person isn't going to be as for it, or as accepting. You know what I mean?

Kristen Daukas: 13:25

In the beautiful thing about the human race, I guess, is that we're all different. We're all unique. And I know it seems so simplistic, but sometimes I am a very simplistic person, and it makes sense to me in the whole Why can't like I don't care. I don't care what somebody else does. If it's not harming someone else, if you're harming someone or something, then yes, I have an issue with it. I may. You know, I'm not a church going person, does that make me not a Christian? No, it doesn't make me not a Christian, but I'm just not a church going person. You want to go to church, go to church. I'm not going to think less of you or more of you. You shouldn't think less or more of me. So I just it, just I'm so I have, even though I do social media for a living, I have to stay off of it unless I'm working, because it is just a dumpster fire. Our world and our humanity is just a dumpster fire. But anyways, we could talk about that all night. So what are some, what are some of the common stereotypes or tropes that you see in the LGBTQ portrayals, and how can people move beyond them being, you know, writers, producers and, you know, human beings? What I mean? It seems like, like you just said the if there's a trans person on the show, Dad, it's going to turn into, oh, you're hiding something. But it does. It seems like, you know, it kind of goes back to the 70s, when, if you were a blonde, you were, you know, you were a dingbat.

Unknown: 14:56

Yeah. Everyone has these perceptions of what they think and Like. Like, have you ever, have you ever seen the show, ugly Daddy? Yes, I

Kristen Daukas: 15:03

love it. So, you know, the whole

Unknown: 15:05

Alexis storyline, yes, that, I feel like, is a perfect representation of that, like deception trope, where it's like, Alexis comes back and is this beautiful blonde and, uh oh, actually, this is the the dead brother that just like, you know, like

Kristen Daukas: 15:27

it's like a bad soap opera,

Unknown: 15:30

but, but whenever Alexis was alive before she was beloved by everyone, it's like, she's not changed. She may have physically changed in like, how you view her, but she's still just as great of a of a business owner and all that stuff as she was before. I mean, obviously it's ugly, Betty, so there are crazy stuff going on in there, but I think a good representation would probably be like in euphoria with jolts. Like, I think there's some, like, sketchy stuff, obviously, that goes on in euphoria. But I think how Jules is just, like, she just comes in and she's beautiful, and the main character, like, falls in love with her. It's just it is what it is. It's not like this huge deal that she's trans, or that Ruth's falling in love with a trans girl like just is what it is. I think that's the way they gotta handle stuff like that.

Kristen Daukas: 16:30

I am a huge shits Creek fan, like my Daydream is to have a shits Creek life and have a rose Mattel. And I felt that. Did you watch it?

Unknown: 16:42

I've only seen bits and pieces, unfortunately. Okay, this

Kristen Daukas: 16:45

is where I chastise you, but because it's incredible, and you have to, did we talk about this? The last time I was there? I know I talked about it with Sid and Janelle, but it the first few episodes you're kind of like but you have to get through the first few episodes before it really the character development happens. And I feel the way they handled David, who obviously is very gay, how they handled that, was beautiful. And I think that's, I know that's one of the reasons why the gay community loves that show so much because they handled it so well, and I can't remember the exact quote of it, but there's that scene where, I'm sure you've seen a meme about it, where he's talking about labels. Have you seen that, where he's holding a bottle of somebody's asking him a question about his sexuality, and he's holding a bottle of wine, and he goes, Well, you know, let's take this bottle, and I'm going to completely annihilate this but he's like, let's take this bottle. He goes, on the outside, it has a bottle, it has a label that says that I'm red wine. He's like, but on the inside it might be white wine, but on the outside, or this bottle, it might be and so how he describes, just like, you can't just label somebody for, you know, and say what's on. It's kind of like the you can't judge a book by its cover, right? Yeah. But he was speaking on how he can be very fluid. And he goes, you know, some days I might be red, some days I might be white, I just some days I might be a rose. He goes, I just don't know, it depends on the situation that I'm in. Highly recommend that you watch it, because just the way it is, I keep saying I'm going to go back and re watch it. It's that moving of a show. It's just incredible. I can't believe it's been gone for five years, but I think they did an excellent job with him and his and, you know, his relationship with, you know, the man that he was seeing. And it was just the way they wrote it. It just, it was normal. It was normal, and it was so beautiful to see like it wasn't, you know, they had their fights they I mean, it just was so nice to see the producers and the writers make it as normal as a heterosexual relationship, right? Yeah, you know, look at Neil Patrick Harris. He's very good at being able to do things of that nature. You know. He does so much with his whole family, his husband and his children. I think they, I think they, he does a great job. What are some of the other, you know, examples like that that you've seen that strike you, that you go, they really are doing a good job.

Unknown: 19:22

That's a good I mean, so have you ever seen, have you ever seen pose?

Kristen Daukas: 19:30

I haven't, so you can just ask

Unknown: 19:32

me if you want. Oh, no, that's okay. It's actually, it's a pretty short series. I believe it was on FX. And pose is basically about the ballroom scene, I believe in, like the 80s and 90s, during the AIDS crisis and stuff like that. Oh, so it's a very heavy show, but I think it is just like such a it's so so well done. They employed trans actresses, they just like, they threw out that representation. That I feel like was just so it was like, prime exactly like, if I could stamp a badge on it and be like, they did a great job, I would, because it's just been, I think that is also one of those shows where you watch and you're like, Wow, that is, I don't know, you just never if you didn't experience that lifestyle, if you didn't experience that era, it just it educates you at the same time. So I love that like

Kristen Daukas: 20:30

I lived through that time. So and I had a lot of friends that you know, a lot of my gay you know, my guy, my guy friends that went through that, you know, it was a horrible time. It really was, and it was hard, obviously challenging, for them, to go through on that. How do you I was? I'm looking it up. That's why I'm not looking at you. Okay, the How did I used to be an ambassador for Netflix, and when Orange is the New Black came out in 2013 that was really cutting edge. Have you watched the whole series?

Unknown: 21:08

I didn't watch the last season. I didn't

Kristen Daukas: 21:11

watch the last half of the last season. So by that point, it had kind of jumped the shark. But I think they did a really good job, especially almost 10 years ago.

Unknown: 21:22

Yeah, they did. And I think I will say that Orange is the New Black. I definitely had to, like, pace myself with that, because there's so much tragedy in regard to everything. And spoiler alert, when Poy died, that was like, it was devastating.

Kristen Daukas: 21:40

It was awful. I was like my jaw was on the ground. But, you know, Laverne Cox was very much a trans woman, and, you know, in real life, and I think it was, I'm so glad they had her. First of all, she's phenomenal. Sydney and I went to go see her at Wake Forest when she came to speak. And some body may or may not have been, like, lurking around trying to, like, find her backstage. But I won't, I won't say anything. I think you know, for them to use her as or cast her, I should say, use her, cast her. And like, nine years ago, I think was very forward thinking, and I think maybe they kind of set the stage to be a little bit more cutting edge, you know, allegedly, and supposedly, all the Conservatives are outraged that Netflix donated money to Kamala. And we're like, yeah, we're canceling. We're like, ah,

Unknown: 22:38

yeah, exactly. And I it's like, how can, how can you expect anything less? Like, have you ever seen sense eight? No, so that's a shorter series too. It's only two seasons, but it is very much. It's very much representation Central, which I think is, is phenomenal. There's a lot. There's not only like, there's lesbians, there's trans lesbians, there's bisexual there's, like every, every letter in the LGBTQIA plus community, they represent that show, which is great.

Kristen Daukas: 23:15

Maybe that's the reason they can't handle it is because there's so many letters they can't remember. Yeah.

Unknown: 23:23

I feel like, yeah, they what do they say? The alphabet, Mafia.

Kristen Daukas: 23:28

I love it. I've never heard that. That's awesome. I

Unknown: 23:31

kind of love that. Sometimes they'll coin terms like that. I'm like, I actually they kind of ate with that.

Kristen Daukas: 23:39

It just, you know, and that we're kind of getting away from the media thing. But I just again, I'm gonna go back to your generation and the fact that you guys are so fluid. You know, love is love, man, like you guys are more like the 70s and 60s and 70s hippies than anything. It's like, love is love. It's like, you know, why do I have to fit into your mold if I want to love this woman or, you know, this trans person, and it just for people filled with so much hate to come at, people filled with so much love. It just boggles my mind. I just can't wrap my head around it. But

Unknown: 24:19

I would say the the Gen Z being open kind of factor, I think it does tie, tie back into the media aspect of things. Because I remember being in high school like a sophomore, and I, I always say my, one of my awakenings was Fifth Harmony. They were like this girl group

Kristen Daukas: 24:37

that I do know. Yeah,

Unknown: 24:40

I read a lot of fan fiction about them. I was like, wow, I don't know, just like snowball affected, and there weren't that many shows at the time that had like, lesbian representation. And when there are so few shows that are out that have that representation, I think that sometimes, some. People do drop the ball, and they like follow through with tropes to kind of make it more, I guess, edible for for the community that because they want it to be generally accepted, they want everybody to watch their show. But I think that growing up and seeing some of these shows, like the 100 with Lexa and Clark, which I have my issues with that, but at least having it out there was nice. Like there was Supergirl with, what's her name, Supergirl Sister, what's

Kristen Daukas: 25:35

your name? The Little sisters always the Little Sisters always get forgotten.

Unknown: 25:40

There was Grey's Anatomy with Cali in Arizona, and being able to at least have those shows to hold on to, I think, allowed our generation to be like, Oh, this is okay. Like having some happy endings out there for somebody that looks like you or acts like you or likes the same type of people as you, I think really does impact society, and I think it does tie into that with how our generation views things, because we've been able to see so much.

Kristen Daukas: 26:13

And it's not gay related, but just in general, representation matters. Everybody's not white, everybody's not straight. It's like last year when Disney did the little mermaid with Ariel being black. And just what I mean, I just got chills thinking about it, just watching all these little African American girls just be in awe because they were seeing somebody that looked like them. Yeah? And then here come these people to shit all over it. Yep, it's like,

Unknown: 26:52

she's a white mermaid.

Kristen Daukas: 26:55

First of all, mermaids don't exist, yeah? That's like saying you can, you can't have a black unicorn. Yeah, you can have a black unicorn if you want to have black unicorn, because they're not real Exactly. They can be purple, they can be orbit, whatever. And it just, it's like, really, do you have to go there and then, like, the whole thing too, with Kamala, we'll go back to Kamala, it's like, and we'll even kick it further back to Taylor Swift, right? And you'll understand why I'm going with this is all of these men that just lost their minds over the fact, you know, all the attention Taylor Swift was getting at the football games. Talk to the camera guy, dude, talk to the camera guy. Talk to the NFL, because they are, they're counting their money with her, right? But the meme that came out and the and the point being made of these. These women are not hearing what you're saying, but your daughters, your your granddaughters, your nieces, your wife, your sisters, they're hearing it and they're they're hearing you say you don't matter

Unknown: 27:55

exactly, that's a great point. I totally agree. And it's just like, those the particularities of it all like, it's just like, I don't know, and like you said earlier, just turn it off if you if you don't like it, just don't watch

Kristen Daukas: 28:10

it exactly. I do not watch. We don't even have cable. We don't have we stream 100% in this household. So it is very rare that we watch mainstream TV, and so I don't know anything about the shows that are on. I don't know. You know, I nothing, absolutely nothing. We do watch our guilty pleasure is Big Brother, not gonna lie. Every year we do it. But we also have a a pool, so we bet on it. Okay, if you want, just let me know. So where I'm going with is, like, I don't watch those shows, so I don't know if there's any representation of our gay community in any of the like, you know, sitcoms and the shows of that. Do you I mean, I know we're starting to see more commercials and advertisements, so I feel like maybe there's a little bit of progress coming that way. But I don't know if that's the case with any of the like the regular, scheduled programming, or whatever you want to call it

Unknown: 29:13

right now, the shows that I the first shows that I think of are the shows that I'm watching. House of the dragon. There's,

Kristen Daukas: 29:21

but that's streaming, that's streaming,

Unknown: 29:25

oh, like in prime time. Like, yeah,

Kristen Daukas: 29:27

like in prime time, I don't so I don't think there is, I don't think there is. And I think that's kind of like, still the safe space quote. And I don't mean safe space, but I'm just kind of like the generic, um, cracker, white, pure kind of area. And I think it's these streamings, because you're right. Well, my God, did you ever watch Casanova? No, not Casanova Buccaneers, not yet, like I told you, okay, there's a there's a whole storyline in there as well, of a lesbian story. Storyline in there,

Unknown: 30:01

yeah, there's, I have to, is that on streaming, or is that? Is that? Yeah,

Kristen Daukas: 30:05

it's on Netflix. Okay, yeah, yeah, especially as a, you know, as a bridgerton fan, I'm telling you, it's, I almost think it's, but I want you to watch it. I want SID to watch it. I want all you guys to watch and then I want to have a conversation about it. We can have, because they for it to be and for those of you that may not be familiar, it is along the lines of bridgerton, except it's the the women are American, and their parents are like, there's nobody good enough in America for our kids. So we're going to ship our daughters over to London for the for the same type of season, right? And, but there's all of these amazing kind of the same thing, very bridgertonish. You know, they've got pop music in classical format, but they have so many cool understories going on. And one of them, it's not, but it's the the attraction between two of the girls is not an understory. It's an actual story throughout the whole thing. So, but yeah, absolutely, on some of these private things, it's 100% you're starting to see some great representation there. And it's intense, it's hot, yeah? Now I'm talking about in general. You're like, Okay,

Unknown: 31:19

let's go, yeah. Like, I I just feel like they're just, and what you said that it's a main story, not a side story. Like, I feel like that was something that it was kind of like a lot of media, or not media, I guess TV shows mostly that was like something that they relied on. They were like, Okay, here's your your poster children for heterosexuality, and then a little bit

Kristen Daukas: 31:42

of gay, a little bit, like, it's an asterisk,

Unknown: 31:46

yeah. Like, with Buffy. Like, have you ever watched Buffy the Vampire Slayer?

Kristen Daukas: 31:49

I That actually was super popular when I was a very young mother. I didn't have time for Buffy.

Unknown: 31:55

That is fair. That is fair. And Buffy was one of, one of my favorite. It's probably one of my favorites of all time.

Kristen Daukas: 32:01

Everybody loved it. It's one of those I probably should revisit now that I, you know, have time. It's so

Unknown: 32:06

campy and corny and funny, like it's just so great. But, I mean, it's kind of an example of that, where eventually, down the line, one of the main characters starts dating a girl. But it's like, it's like, Buffy and Angel and then Willow and Tara, Buffy and Angel, that little bit of Willow and Sarah and that story, kind of, I don't know if I would classify it as good representation or bad representation, because it kind of, it comes into this rope. It's called the barrier gaze trope, where, basically the writer will write this big, beautiful, like we've been waiting for this moment with a couple that's gay and then kill one of them off, of

Kristen Daukas: 32:46

course, because somebody's gonna die Exactly.

Unknown: 32:49

And there's like the same thing happens in the 100 the same thing happens in a lot of stuff, like skins, uh, Vampire Diaries, the lesbians die. It's like, you can't be a lesbian and a TV show and stay alive for more than a season. It's just not possible. You know, your

Kristen Daukas: 33:06

time is coming to an end.

Unknown: 33:09

Yeah, it's so bad. And I think I don't know. I think that they a lot of people. So for example, with the 100, I forget who the writer, what the writer's name was, but it was so it was so poorly written, it was so stupid, and there was so much backlash. Everyone stopped watching the show because they're like, it was 2015 or something, and everyone's like, all right, what is enough? We've seen this so many times. Why can't we just have a happy ending for for the couple that were shipping.

Kristen Daukas: 33:42

I was just trying to Speaking of bridgerton, did you finish the last season? I did. So they kind of had a little bit of a interesting little bit going on in there as well, with the with what's his name? Oh crap. Oh Benedict, yes, yes,

Unknown: 34:03

oh yeah, yeah. I forgot about that. Yeah. So

Kristen Daukas: 34:07

it's so it's interesting. It's, it's a, I think maybe some of these production companies are afraid that I think they need to get a little bit more courageous the people that are going to be offended by it most likely over here watching ABC, yeah, and I think there's a fine line between putting everything in your face and being gross about it, which, how is that love? Is love, right? But it just, it needs to be more just an a natural, like, okay, so it's two guys, it's two girls, whatever.

Unknown: 34:44

Yeah, I did feel like with the bridgerton storyline. I was like, because you know how bridgerton is, so it's like, soft core at some point, absolutely, and Anna and I were watching it, and I was like, why do they keep cutting away? They don't do this with every other couple on Bridgeton. Usually it's like a 10 minute, like full theme, but with Benedict, and I was like, What the heck they're on there? But I think that they were sprinkling in it, and they're testing the waters, agree?

Kristen Daukas: 35:15

And, you know, smart on them, right? Smart on them. Did you see that he is the he is the fourth season's love story. Okay,

Unknown: 35:24

we just announced that last week. I didn't see that, yeah, that. I guess that makes sense there. They were definitely setting them up for that. I mean, come on,

Kristen Daukas: 35:33

those people are crazy. They had nothing else to do. Barely had electricity, yeah? All right, any kind of closing thoughts? What else? What have we not talked about that you want to talk

Unknown: 35:46

about make sure we hit. I don't know. I feel very well prepared, and you

Kristen Daukas: 35:50

wrote your notes down. So look at your notes and say, What have I not said? What do I really want to get out there to Kristen's five listeners, which is funny, because I actually have more listeners on YouTube than I do. I have a lot of people on YouTube. I don't know why. Kind of odd.

Unknown: 36:08

I think YouTube. I mean, YouTube's the number two search engine in the world, isn't it? Yep, right behind most YouTube, right behind Google. I mean, I think, I guess my closing statement would mostly be something along the lines of, I feel that, obviously it's really important to have representation in media, but I think it's even more important for it to be good representation. I think, you know, having the sassy gay man being the butt of the joke only, you can only do that so many times, having the predatory lesbian, like, in Pitch Perfect, being, like, super creepy, and, you know, like they're driving a U haul, yeah, like there's representation, which is, is one foot in the door, in a way, maybe a pinky toe in the door, but there's like good representation, which I think is really important. It's not only important for just society as a whole, but I think it's important for the individual, whether that be somebody in the community, to be able to see somebody that reflects their own life and their own wants and needs, or somebody who is so far removed from the community to see somebody that they may, may never meet in person, to give them the opportunity to love somebody that maybe one day they're in a small town and a gay person or a trans person walks into a bar because they saw that one show where they love that one character, They'll treat them with kindness instead of reject them. So I think just gotta do a little bit more to make a little bit more good representation on on TV and in movies and even on YouTube. Right

Kristen Daukas: 37:57

I want to see a Hallmark Christmas movie that has a gay couple.

Unknown: 38:04

There is a reminiscent there. It's called the happiest season, and it is interesting, really, yeah, Kristen Stewart and Aubrey Plaza are in it.

Kristen Daukas: 38:18

I have to check that out.

Unknown: 38:20

Yeah, check it out. I

Kristen Daukas: 38:22

am when I finally last year, I was always the NO NO NO with the Hallmark Christmas movies. And I went, you know what? This is the perfect thing to put on while I'm working other, like, doing other things, because it's so cheesy. And I think that's why I like started like, this is, this is like a Harlequin romance on TV that unfolds in an hour and 52 minutes. And it's

Unknown: 38:45

so simple. They're all so simple.

Kristen Daukas: 38:48

And you know what I think, what I discovered last year is that in the art the world that we're living in right now, as stupid and cheesy as they are, it was like a nice escape to go, oh, there is a place somewhere, even if it's in my head, that's happy and pleasant and everything, you know, there's always a happy, happily ever after. Yeah,

Unknown: 39:16

those, those are great. Honestly, it's a little escape. I totally agree,

Kristen Daukas: 39:21

total escape. Ari, thank you so much for doing this, and I want you to hang on after we stop recording so that we can say a formal goodbye. But in the meantime, everybody, thank you so much for tuning in. I hope you learned something, and just remember at the end of the day, representation does matter. And Ari and all of our friends and the Gen Z generation have things to say that are super, super important to hear, if you just stop and take the time to listen until next time, I hope your drinks or coffee are as strong as your will to finish watching the 11. Six, and let's go Team America,

Unknown: 40:04

USA, USA,

Kristen Daukas: 40:08

as the saying goes, you don't have to go home, but you can stay here. And that's a wrap for this week's episode. A big thanks to my guests for sharing their story and to you for listening. Don't forget to share the show with your friends and spread the words and if you'd like to be a guest on the show, the link is in the show notes till next time cheers you.