On Politics and Community: An Unvarnished Take on the Current Landscape

In this episode, I am so excited to welcome my longtime bestie and political confidante, Jennifer Filipowski, for a discussion about the current state of American politics. Having shared experiences over the past three decades, we dig into the political landscape, sharing our perspectives and concerns about the future.

We discussed the recent Republican National Convention (one of us watched some of it, the other none of it). The conversation then shifts to the historic nomination of Kamala Harris as the Democratic vice presidential candidate, where we consider our hopes, fears, and reservations about a potential Harris presidency.

Throughout the discussion, we address important topics such as the challenges of getting people engaged in politics, the crucial role of party involvement, and the implications of the Heritage Foundation's "Project 2025" plan. 

About Jennifer:

Jennifer Filipowski is a dedicated community leader and former executive with a rich background in both corporate and volunteer sectors. Before retiring, Jennifer served as the Executive Vice President of marketing for a global technology company, where she honed her leadership and strategic skills. Her career achievements are marked by her ability to drive innovative marketing initiatives and foster significant growth within her organization.

Since retiring, Jennifer has channeled her energy into volunteerism, particularly in the realms of politics and the arts. She currently serves as the Chair of her county Democratic Party and the Credentials Chair for the state Party. Her commitment to civic engagement is evident through her organization of extensive canvassing, phone banking, and postcard writing campaigns, reaching thousands of individuals.

In addition to her political involvement, Jennifer is a partner at a local arts non-profit, producing events that not only celebrate the arts but also contribute to local economic development. Jennifer’s combined experience in corporate leadership and volunteer dedication makes her a dynamic and influential figure in her community, championing both political engagement and cultural enrichment.

Transcript

Unknown: 0:00

Kristen daukas, welcome to Conversations on the rocks, the podcast where the drink is strong and the stories are stronger. I'm your host, Kristen daukas, and this isn't your average chat fest. Here. Real people spill the tea alongside their favorite drinks, from the hilarious to the heart wrenching, each episode a wild card. You'll laugh, you may cry, but you'll definitely learn something new. So grab whatever, what's your whistle and buckle up. It's time to dive into the raw, the real and the ridiculously human. Let's get this chat party started. Hey everybody, it's Kristen daukas. You're listening to the latest episode of conversations on the rocks, the conversations that are as random as the thoughts that mumble through my head. But I've got another great person for you to meet today, whom I have known I believe now we're up to almost 30 years, and that would be the woman who has stuck by me through thick and thin. Who is my sister from another mister and mother, Jennifer filipowski, and she is the bestest bestie at the world has ever known. And if you think you've got the bestest bestie, I'm sorry you're wrong. Jennifer, welcome to the hot seat. Tell everybody about you fastest bestie. Okay, now we're the best as Besty, though. Now we got tell everybody a little bit about me. Well, thank you so much for having me. And I met Kristen in in North Carolina, and then I dragged her to Chicago, like, six months later, we had the best friend meet cute, cute meat. However you say it, we actually, I didn't drag you to Chicago. It was a mutual like, we're moving to Chicago, get the hell out of Greensboro. And then I dragged you to Colorado again, a hard drive. Then, yes, eventually we all ended up back in North Carolina for a very long time raising our children, which was absolutely lovely, and then my husband dragged me back to Colorado. But during all that time, I was a marketing executive for a number of technology companies, and I had always sort of dabbled a little bit in politics, as far as volunteering with candidate campaigns and such, dating all the way back to Obama's Senatorial Campaign in Chicago when I was living there, so because that's where I'm from, but Then in 2016 I got really involved in politics and became an officer in the county party in North Carolina, and then when we moved to Colorado, I became the Chair of our county party here. I'm also involved at the state party, handling a lot of the technology needs for our voting processes and including the election of our DNC delegates and electors, for instance. And yeah, in addition to that, I am one of the partners of a nonprofit here that focuses on the arts and producing events that promote economic development in our tiny, little town of 8000 some people. Is it really that many? Yes, just back in the day, it was like, what, maybe 500 people that lived there in that particular area, probably. So that's really good. That's so pretty. Yeah, nobody lived this our down Valley back then. So when we were originally, when we when I, let me rephrase that, when I originally was thinking about what we were gonna talk about, I believe I put it to you, we're going to talk about the shit show that is happening right now. And then, all of a sudden, things changed. Then came Sunday, similar topic, but a lot less shitty, showish, wow. Okay, let's, um, I want to talk real quick. I don't know if you watched it all, but only because I was watching something that would lead right into it. I did watch part of the RNC last week, just to kind of well a it was came on after whatever show I had been watching, and it was interesting to say the least. Did you happen to catch any of it? I cannot, for my own mental health, watch any of that. I really wanted to get an idea, because at that point it was, you know, the two old guys. So I really wanted to get an idea, you know, with, especially with 45 going through the assassination attempt, and it's just, this is just a really bizarre thing that's going on. It's just even before President Elect Kamala came in. She, uh. It's just, it's just been so bizarre. He I will say this, it appears that whoever 45 has on his team that told him to shut the F up and calm down, at least at the RNC, it seemed it was just a totally different version of him, and it was still him, you know, especially on the last night of it, because, and, you know, I finally turned it off. I could only take about 15 minutes of that and but it's just bizarre. So what is your take on everything that has happened up until Sunday? Let's just not jump into Sunday yet. Matt, jump into Sunday yet? Yeah, I mean, I think me, and I know that I am not alone. There are a lot of people who have a lot of anxiety over if they're following politics, and you know at all, a lot of anxiety about this upcoming presidential election. Trump categorically on a lot of different measures, was our worst president in history, as far as the, you know, policies that he enacted. The I mean, he's a convicted felon. It's, you know, there's lots of narcissism and threats and calls for violence against, you know, against anybody that doesn't agree with him, and yet he turns around and makes it sound like it's the opposite happening. Yeah, he's a good gaslighter narcissist, behavior which has fired up his followers, his cult members, to believe that their freedoms are threatened if the Democrats win, which I don't know if you've seen the likely nominee Kamala Harris's new ad today. It talks all about Democrats. You know freedom for you know like fighting for freedom, basically, and fighting for our freedoms. So, yeah, it's, it is a scary time, and I think a lot of people were feeling despair. Because even even before the debate, a lot of people were feeling despair over the fact that it was the two oldest, you know, presidential candidates in our history. And how could we not? How could we not do something you know, better than that, and you know, quite honestly, in the history of our country, if there is an incumbent, nobody ever runs against an incumbent president, granted. He had said he wasn't going to pursue a second term when he got elected the first time, but there were obviously a lot of people who voted for him, particularly, you know, as we all know, women of color saved our asses from a second Trump administration in 2020 Yeah, in 2020, so, yeah, it's, there was a lot of despair, a lot of like, Oh, I really don't feel like even voting, which would be disastrous, because if people don't vote, then, you know, unfortunately, the unfortunately Trump would win. Well, and in full transparency, that was me. I wasn't not going to vote, but I was really and I would not vote for 45 absolutely at all. However, I was really struggling with that whole thing. So when Sunday happened, it was like, it was like this rush of optimism and happiness and excitement. I'm like, I'm excited about it again. I was, I was in the category of driving, just the way I kind of offhand the post, like either of those guys were, my dad, I think might be taking their keys away. You can't drive, but, yeah, we're just let you drive this country. So why do you think? And I have my own theory on this. Why do you think it is so difficult to get people interested? I mean it. I mean you're right. Why? Why were those our only choices? And let's take out of the fact that of it being an incumbent, but it's so you don't hear people talking about that they want to go into politics as much anymore, because especially up running it up the flagpole to that. Why do you think that is? Well, I think there are a number of factors as to why that is. One it's, you know, it is a thankless job, and the responsibilities of the jobs and the time commitment and the amount of effort that you have to put into it is the ratio, in comparison to the amount you get paid to do that job, right? Don't, don't figure it out or something that I you know, I mean general, the GA members in North Carolina, and I think it's similar here, is like they get paid. Less than $15,000 a year. So it's basically volunteer. It is now a full time job, right? So, like, you can't be, you know, you can't work in any job because you have to be in the General Assembly for a month and a half, two months at it, you know, during a specific time of the year when it's in Session. And, you know, so how are you supposed to hold a regular job? Which means you've got to be rich to be able to go into politics. And, you know, that's how we've gotten kind of a limited pool to choose from. But if you go back to 2016 or, I'm sorry, back to 2020 when we did have a big field, I think again, going back to, you know, black women in particular were all in for Biden, mainly because he showed his receipts under Obama, not once did he raise any sort of flag or try to contradict President Obama, or say, you know, he made a bad Call, or try to act like he knew better than you know, than a black man, just by right of him being a white man, and so I think that endeared him to to that community, and pretty strongly. I mean, most candidates dropped out before, before Super Tuesday, even. And the other aspect of it is, is that there was a fear that electing someone who was not an old white man would suffer the same kind of backlash. You know, there's a lot of fear that Trump was backlash for a black president, that the pendulum, you know, swing so far to the other side and did a lot of harm than to those communities, and so we better go back to electing old white guys. And Biden was the oldest white guy. Literally. The other aspect of it is psychologically, is other people go, Well, who can win? And we think too much in our brains about who do we think can win the election? We're not thinking, Who do I want to win the election? We get more concerned about, you know, who, who do I think everybody else is voting for? So there was a great phrase that Elizabeth Warren had during her campaign. It's like, she'll win if you vote for her, right? Yeah, which is similar to, you know, I still have a little bit of reservation about Vice President Harris, and that was one of the reasons I was worried about Biden stepping down. It was, you know, it's like, look, he's, you're not voting for a person, you're voting for an administration, right? You're, you know, we're already going to be voting probably, for an eventual President Harris, because I doubt he would make it through his his next presidency, and so basically that was where my brain was like, if I'm vote, you know, I'm obviously voting for Biden, but I'm not voting for Biden. I'm by voting for all the people that he has brought into his administration, who are all very smart, very talented, very qualified people, as opposed to cronies and donors and whoever can stick their nose the furthest up his butt, you know, I'm voting for a vice president, for vice president Harris to be ready to step up if he, you know, has to leave. And I think that might have been what was going through their brains, as far as, like, oh, well, we've got a, you know, when they were trying to, you know, getting the calls to step down, like, we have to win. It's our, you know, democracy depends on it our Republic, and so let's get him elected, and then he can resign. But I wasn't in the room. I don't know. Even though everybody, once you get elected to a position in the party, everybody thinks you can have inside information on that. No secret hotline and no, that's so it's so true. And I was explaining that to Mackenzie, I said, you know, it is i and even before all of it, I was like, he did the right thing for the party, he did the right thing for the country, and for that, you know, I feel like that was a big move. And of course, on the other side, they're all ready, you know, it's just, it's just, I'm just, I think I speak for every literal person in the United States. We're just so sick and tired of it. It just, it's exhausting. It's toxic. We look like the a third world country to everybody else in the country in the world. And it's just, I don't understand why people just can't get it. My dad taught me that at a very young age. He goes the President doesn't have that much power, because you need to look at everybody else around him. That's where you need to focus your votes. And which probably, you know, I would have done had the race continued in the way that it would. Is I would have spent devoted all my time, you know, researching those as opposed to, okay, you know, I'm not gonna let my party down. I just, I can't. I would never have voted for that other one. But. But what are your let's talk about Kamala. Kamala. Did I say Kamala Kamala? That's what I thought. That's what I thought. So let's talk about her. Vice President Harris. Let's talk about Vice President Harris. You said you had some reservations. Yeah. I mean, I left she was one of my top choices in 2020 during that primary, I have been to an event and heard her, heard her speak. She is she's great. I love her. She's got a very dynamic personality. She's super nice, she's, you know, she's funny, she's professional, she's authentic, and, you know, I will be absolutely thrilled if she becomes our next president. I have again, reservations, though I was so excited for Hillary to be our president, and then the kind of depression and the letdown that happened right after that was, you know, was really, really, really rough time. So I don't want to, you know, I feel like I don't want to get my hopes up and then have them dashed, because we still live in a very racist, very sexist country. But I am heartened by all of the enthusiasm and all of the memes and all of the, you know, the injection of hope that it's put into people like you and into young people. And, you know, there's tons of people who think it's a great thing, and so we just all need to get out there and work to get her elected despite the odds. And I know just for us, we have gotten a like the number of volunteer inquiries that we have gotten over the last you know, four days is has been a great sign that people are energized and ready to get out there and make sure that she gets elected. Hear what actual AI generated voices are saying about the Wheeler's dog podcast. It can be amusing. It's better than going to the dentist. The award winning Wheeler's dog podcast can be found just about anywhere that you get podcasts. Listening to Eugene is better than looking at Eugene. Let's put it this way, the Wheeler's dog podcast is better than having your leg broken by a lone star. If AI generated voices are saying that about the Wheelers dog podcast, shouldn't you be a listener too? Here's the thing that I honestly have a big fear of, and that is on the other side, these people are loose cannons. They are, and I am actually, if they're a person doesn't win and we succeed. And when I am really kind of scared as to what's going to happen, yeah, no, I'm right there with you. I mean, you need to keep those two downstairs bedrooms empty. And I will be on the next flight. I'll figure something out to do with my dogs, No, but seriously, it is something that I'm very concerned about. I'm especially with one of my children living in Washington, DC, right? It just these people will go off unhinged if a black woman is our president, a black Asian woman, a black Asian woman who has no children, yeah, no, that is, that is definitely very scary. I mean, you know, January 6 was just shocking and yeah, made us look like a third world country. It brought back to mind when we were going through covid. I think my favorite meme about covid Was that Canada has to feel like they're living in the apartment above the crack house. Yep. I mean, it's just what it looks like. And you know, these people don't care. They do not care. I hadn't unfortunately, we went to go see it wasn't Independence Day, but it was some movie that we didn't think ended up being what we didn't think it was going to be. And that movie disturbed me. It disturbed me because I it was just one. It was art imitating life, or life imitating art, whichever way you want to do it, Independence Day. It wasn't Independence Day. It was we just went about a month and a half ago. I can't remember the name of the name of the movie, but it was, we thought it was going to be an Independence Day kind of movie, and it ended up being like a whole secession and, you know, it was very disturbing. It was so disturbing. And, you know, I'm pretty I'm pretty tough when it comes to that stuff, so I'm just terrified that something like that's going to happen. Because these people, like I said, these people are unhinged and it they don't care. And I know, I know, as far as movies go, a lot of people's brains, especially once Hulk Hogan took the stage, was to Idiocracy. I didn't see Hulk Hogan. I really, really liked the guy from the Teamsters. He gave a really. Really good speech. And it was interesting, because I'm sure he ticked off a lot of people in that room because he was going straight down the middle, because he's like, it's not my job. He goes, I don't care, because I'm not here to piss anybody off, you know. And but it was just interesting, if you go and listen to his speech, I'm sure these people were like, we, like, we like, big companies. And, you know, his whole thing was like, I Well, not only that, the Republicans try to shut down unions every chance they get. So I am surprised they even invited somebody from the dumpsters. Don't be there. Go check out. Go find his interview or his speech. It was a really, really well done speech. But yeah, for me, I'm landing Kid Rock. But you saw by those people, and whatever Lee Greenwood, or whatever you you could just it was very well orchestrated to hit their audience. It was their target audience. They were going to appeal to their target audience. And how you roll out some wrestlers and wrestlers and things like that, and it's going to make them all America, America, right? Well into that, I've got to give Biden credit, too, for waiting until after their convention was over so that now he's, you know, now the other guy is stuck with this vice presidential candidate who served a different purpose while Biden was still the one running. Yeah. I mean, my my fear with Biden stepping down, in addition a I was like, I was so sick of having the conversation, and I would try to talk people off the ledge by explaining that part about you're voting for the administration, you're not voting for the person. And so think about it as if you are already casting your vote for vice president Harris. Because if Biden steps down, the only person that it can be is Vice President Harris, and I was nervous that there would be other people, other white guys in particular, who would be stepping up, thinking that they could then come in and somehow take the nomination. So I was worried about Vice President Harris getting leapfrogged, and that upsetting, you know, all the people who are anti racist, in addition to all of the people of color, and then, and, you know, turn off them and make them not want to vote. Have our convention be a, you know, circus sideshow of multiple votes. And, you know, ironic that it's in Chicago, considering that the last time we had a disastrous Democratic Party convention, although I guess I could argue that the Bernie Hillary ones was pretty disastrous, but the last one, the big one, was in Chicago, 68 so that should make it. It should be interesting. There was something it may have been yesterday, after his speech they were doing that they were showing all the different parallels between 68 and this year. And it was just like, whoa. It's like a time. It's like a time capsule. Yeah, yeah, no. So I'm glad that it seems like vice president Harris has locked up all of the delegate votes and all of the roll call like, technically, she will be the nominee before the convention even convenes, because the roll call and The actual delegate vote casting happens now, like my delegate, who's going, who lives here in Eagle County, he put in his vote today. So, yeah, I think the whole timing of it, you can't tell me, it wasn't orchestrated. It just it was, of course it was. I mean, the whole thing everybody you know, the Republicans being on such a big high from that party, and now they're scrambling. You know, they knew they could, they knew they could beat the old white guy, but now they have the old white guy, so it's totally different. But I'll say this. I'm not, not saying that I like it, but it was a very smart move on Trump's part, to choose JD Vance or someone that age, I think, because, and that's what we need to do, that's what we need to have some of that youth on the Democratic side. So yeah, it's nice now we've got someone that's going to be our candidate that's two decades younger than the Republicans candidate. But that's what we need. We need that that youth and Gen X ain't standing up to do it. Hell no, we're like shit. No way. Hey, nobody got time. Y'all just fight for Vice be like for vice president. Um, who do you want vice president Harris pick. I love Roy Cooper. I love Roy but I don't think it's him. I don't think, I don't think he's the right choice. I really like the guy from Illinois, jbrickson, yeah, really, yeah. But I also, we've got him, we've got Cooper. I. Think the one that she should take is probably the guy from Kentucky or Cher Yeah. Okay, why I think, why don't you think Roy is the right one? He's, well, he won't get the North Carolinian Republican votes for sure ever, because the Republicans hate Roy Cooper. I don't know if he's, well, maybe he's kind of calm and complacent, which might be a nice balance to her charisma. I don't know you know who I really wish it would be, but he's way too young at this point. Is Jeff Jackson. Yeah, Jeff Jackson is gonna he'll probably go far. All right, so why do you think Bashir? I think it's more about his location. It's about, you know, being from Kentucky. I think that's a very I think it's a redder state than they think. They want to say it's purple, but I think it's a much redder state, you know, that I think it's a more middle aged, middle income type vote that she's going to need. That's just my and I haven't done too much research on any of them. Obviously, I know Roy from living here, but Right, just demographically, and then I've seen the guy from Illinois. He just seems kind of cool. No, JB is very cool. I actually know JB. He and my brother were would hang out back in the day a bit. So, yeah, I like JB. I didn't even realize he was on the short list at this point. I like Cooper, because to offset our black Asian fireball, probably need, definitely need, a white you know, white absolutely has to be a white guy. It absolutely does. And his older years experience, he has experience working with a super majority General Assembly and actually still manages to get stuff done. I don't know that North Carolina is in a situation where it will help with the electoral votes. What I've heard from some folks is that there's four states that are really going to make the difference as far as the electoral count, and that's Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan and Georgia. So I think also, with Vice President Harris being from California, that having somebody in the southeast would be helpful and might help with Georgia. So that's another reason that I like Cooper. He's one of he's one of the ones at the top of my list. I think she's probably going to have to pick Shapiro, or actually take that back. She might have to pick Mark Kelly, although Arizona isn't as you know, I don't think it's as much in play, but Mark Kelly checks off a lot of those boxes of military and law and order and, oh yeah, his wife almost died. That's right, I forgot an astronaut, you know, like and they were saying that that those boxes that he ticks off, you know, especially once you get to NASA and the astronaut, it's like everybody wants to grow up to either be president or an astronaut. So, you know, some of these folks that are on the fence, which is really who she has to go, who they really have to attack. And, you know, unfortunately, you know, after that first debate, I said it to my mastermind girls and who were there you and my friend Sarah would get along really, really well. She's up in Vermont and she she's a dei expert. But I was like it as much as it pained me to say it after that debate, I was like anybody, for a lot of people that were probably sitting on the fence, unfortunately, probably fell on the wrong side of the fence. So we really have got to get those people that are really teetering. And I agree. I think somebody that I forgot about him, yeah, he's he's cool. I like him. And I yeah, I think he would appeal to a lot of people. I don't, and I think he would, maybe that's my problem with Roy Cooper. I just don't think he has the same appeal. He's very safe, like the like you were just saying, the guy, you know, the guy's an astronaut. I mean, I love Roy. I got to meet his wife last year, but I think he's not an astronaut. No, Roy's not an astronaut. The other guy's an astronaut. Roy's definitely not an astronaut. Well, and that's the thing, is, I don't think that. I don't think Governor Cooper has the name recognition in the rest of the country. I think Mark Kelly has the most out of those four, unless you're from Chicago and you know the Pritzker Family, obviously, since that's Hyatt, yeah, yeah, I think he definitely could win some of those undecideds that are sitting on the fence cool, he's an astronaut. What else we're wrapping up on 30 minutes? So what else can you tell us that we need to be looking for what's going to happen next? We've got the we've got the DNC coming up. DNC is coming up. Yeah. I mean, just what did I think something. One, the one thing that I when I was gonna say, did I hear something that there's not going to be a debate between Trump and Harris, that he doesn't want one? Of course, he doesn't, he doesn't want. He's walking back. He knows that she would clean his clock, blabber him, run circles around him, literally. And I, I think also that the fact that Vice President Harris is a little bit of a while, the like the coconut memes being a perfect example, she will say what she wants to say. She's she's less scripted, I guess, and less reserved. Whereas, I think, in the debate, for instance, between Trump and Secretary Clinton, that she was playing it cool and wasn't, you know, didn't really go after him. Biden would do the same thing. I don't think that Vice President Harris would hesitate for a second to come after him and call him out. And so he does not want that, obviously. So yeah, he's saying that ABC shouldn't, or CBS, or whoever was supposed to host it is biased, and that instead it should be hosted by Fox, who, of course, isn't biased, whatever, not against him, against that side, but yeah. I mean, I think the biggest thing that I learned after, after, in 2016 was that the we're stuck with a two party system for better or for worse, probably worse, because the two party system just perpetuates itself and is set up to do exactly that and not allow their parties to come in. And so you have so many people, like the majority of the people in this country, are now unaffiliated, and what that does, unfortunately, is the folks who aren't a member of the party, let alone actually involved in the party. You know, going to meetings, you know, going to your local meetings, connecting with other Democrats, becoming a precinct organizer. Those folks have a lot of power, because they're the ones who elect the leaders of their county and of their state, and so if you we're all not involved, because the party is not like, this thing that's like, you know, there's no conspiracy theory. There's no, like, you know, big meeting room. It's, and this goes for both parties. There's no, you know, there's, it's all volunteers. I mean, I'm a volunteer. Everybody's a volunteer, except for maybe a few people who are at the state level, depending on the state, obviously. But for the most part, everybody else is not paid. We're doing this because we don't want to leave it our party to the crazy people, like, if you're not involved, then you get the people who are, you know, if we don't have more people involved, then it's the people who have the, you know, the Zealots and the and the ideologies that lean too far one way or the other, who then are the ones making the decisions and picking the nominees and picking the people, the people who are Leading the state party who are then electing the delegates who are going to go to, you know, go to the national convention. So, you know, I would just encourage people to get involved. Call your county party, you know, attend a couple meetings. I know it's scary, but knock on some doors. They're not going to send you to doors that are going to be, you know, someone who's not going to agree with you. I mean, every door I've knocked on, people have been, you know, receptive and happy to see somebody from the party. Because the other complaint is, well, I never hear from you unless you want my vote. Well, you are actually, you are actually me, and we could all be doing this together, and that's what we should be doing. I think that that we do a big disservice to our children. We teach them about, you know, the three branches of government, but we don't teach them about politics and the importance of the importance of the parties and how the parties operate and how our elections operate because that lack of education has led to a lot of fear, a lot of misunderstandings, a lot of false assumptions that you know, somehow our elections aren't secure, etc, well, and I think something too. And I was telling, I said, made this comment to somebody the other day, is your far left and your far right are the loudest. The people in the middle are the biggest right and it I think, because they're so what people that are in the middle are focused on is how loud the two sides are, the left and the right, the far left. And far right? And that it's just like, well, I don't want to get involved in that. I don't want to have to deal with that. Bs and so, but that's why, another reason why it is so important to have the common person like us in there to, you know, you know, help with that, and go like, you know, and we don't have, okay, I'm gonna ask you real quick and see if we can do this real quick, talk to me about the project 2025 because I don't really, I don't understand. I do, but I haven't taken the time to sit down and really dig into it. Yeah. So, so project 2025 is a blueprint 920 page document that the Heritage Foundation developed with a number of authors for what their vision for America is, and that includes, you know, eliminating the department of education nationwide, abortion and birth Control bans. You know, changing this like being able to basically fire every single civil servant so that all of our, you know, all of our federal and state agencies are populated with, you know, whoever bought their way into the position through either you know, whatever, cronyism. Right now, a lot of those positions are protected to a certain extent by law that, you know, it's hard to fire somebody who's working for the government without some really good cause. So, yeah, I mean, there's a lot of scary things in Project 25 I'll send you, I'll send you a video and a couple summaries that you can look at, but basically it was written. And the reason that it scares me, as far as why I think it's real and why it would, you know, it is totally their vision and that they would start enacting it is because some of the things have already started to happen. Number one, but number two, the same, you know, the same group of folks got together and put together the plan for gerrymandering, like for going at these low level like school board meetings and city councils and taking over those boards, and then getting all of the district lines gerrymandered in such a way that, mean, North Carolina is purple, but you wouldn't know it based on the way our representatives get elected, because it's been gerrymandered so bad that Democrats just can't even win, like the legislature's choosing their voters, as opposed to voters choosing their legislators. Yeah, it's intense. It really is intense. And, you know, without knowing enough about it, I didn't want to even pretend to speak on it, but so we are going to wrap up. This has been an extremely enlightening and delightful conversation, and I'm glad Sunday happened gonna be exciting now, so it's but I think it's gonna get really, really nasty again, probably nastier than it did in the last election. And man, people just stay in your lane. Seriously. All right, friends, until next time, may you have a delightful evening, day, afternoon, whatever it is, what time of the day it is for you and I, as always, thank you so much for being here. As the saying goes, you don't have to go home, but you can stay here, and that's a wrap for this week's episode. A big thanks to my guests for sharing their story and to you for listening. Don't forget to share the show with your friends and spread the words. And if you'd like to be a guest on the show, the link is in the show notes, until next time, cheers. You